OK. Looking at some of the old rule books, I'm confused. Take for example the novice sequence from 86-87:<div>Takeoff</div><div>Straight flight out (U)</div><div>Procedure turn</div><div>Straight flight back (D)</div>
<div>Stall Turn (U)</div><div>Immelmann Turn (U)</div><div>3 inside loops (U)</div><div>One horizontal roll (D)</div><div>Landing</div><div><br></div><div>The procedure turn, stall turn, and Immelmann sure seem like turnarounds to me, granted to meet the mandatory directions relative to wind you would need to have a free turnaround between the straight flight back and the stall turn, and another free turnaround between the stall and the Immelmann, etc. So were all the "stunt" turns intended to be executed at show center with a free turnaround outside the box between each maneuver? </div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm amazed at the amount of "heat" (aka: passion) there seems to have been in the K-factor around the change to turnaround schedules. I admit I like my 2 "free" turnarounds outside the box in Sportsman between maneuvers 6+7 and 11+12 but I could muddle through without them if I had to, and I honestly can't imagine flying such a disjoint sequence as the ones I'm seeing in the old rulebooks. Hardly feels like a "sequence".</div>
<div><br></div><div>Peter+</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:43 AM, J N Hiller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">The
sequences flown were published in the old rule books. Be aware that over the
years some of the class names changed.<u></u><u></u></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Some time
back I applied K-factors to those non-turnaround schedules to try to understand
the migration of increasing difficulty, concluding that the K-factor alone is a
poor indicator of actual difficulty. But we all step up to the challenge regardless
of the difficulty.<u></u><u></u></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Jim <u></u><u></u></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"></span></font></p><div class="im"><font color="black" face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Peter Vogel<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 31, 2012
11:23 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
</font></div><div><div class="h5"><font color="black" face="Tahoma"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> NSRCA Discussion List<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Fwd: Another discussion topic relating tonew FAIrules</font></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I was reading
some of the archived K-factors and it got me curious, is there an archive of
the sequences pre-turnaround?</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Peter+<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone4S</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 31, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Joe Lachowski <<a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com" target="_blank">jlachow@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">You can log on at the NSRCA website
and then proceed to the judges section and click on archived documents. Thanks
to Jim Hiller who provided me a lot of these, I was able to scan them in and
put them into the PDF Format. Anyone who has anything older than whats up
there, send a hard copy to me to scan and I'll have Derek put them up.<br>
</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in;text-align:center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:45:38 -0800<br>
From: <a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Another discussion topic relating to new
FAIrules<br>
<br>
We have a pretty good collection of AMA and FAI rule books on the website if
anyone wants to see what rules were like, or how much they have changed over
the years... </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Click on the link below:</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="http://nsrca.us/index.php/archiveddocuments" target="_blank">http://nsrca.us/index.php/archiveddocuments</a> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Jon Lowe
<<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com" target="_blank">jonlowe@aol.com</a>> wrote:</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">It would appear that the FAI is going down the same road as IMAC,
with IMAC's subjective "airspace control" factor. The
smoothness and gracefulness 25% gives a judge a non-objective way to give a
downgrade of 2 to 3 points. Since there is no scoring criteria for it
that I could find, other than Michael Ramel's instructions to the judges at the
WC, I'm not sure what we do with it. I would think that his instructions
would have been protestable, if anyone had wanted to go down that path, since
I'm unaware of any official FAI rule interpretation saying, for
example, that constant speed is a part of smoothness and
gracefulness. I'm sure he was just trying to give meaning to a poorly
writen criteria.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Very
sorry to see the FAI going this way.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="4" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial">Jon</span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Mark Atwood <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:49 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Another discussion topic relating to new
FAIrules<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Dave, the answer, by your own math, is that a geometrically
perfect maneuver can't be beaten purely by other criteria. With geometry
making up 50% of the score, no amount of smoothness can be valued MORE than
precision. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">I could also argue that a geometrically "perfect"
maneuver would always have at least some level of gracefulness based on that
perfect geometry. They're not completely independent. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Unfortunately S&G is completely subjective, and as analytical
people, we're not too keen on subjectivity. But that's the nature of the
sport. It's perceived precision, not measured. Vertical
lines at the end of the box don't need to BE vertical, they need to LOOK
vertical, etc. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">If we want purely objective scoring... look to racing. Go
fast, bank left, pull. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<span style="word-spacing:0px">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold">Mark Atwood</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="1" color="black" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana">Phone: <a href="tel:440.684.3101%20x102" value="+14406843101" target="_blank">440.684.3101 x102</a> </span></font><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold">|</span></font></b><font size="1" color="black" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana"> Fax:
<a href="tel:440.684.3102" value="+14406843102" target="_blank">440.684.3102</a></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</span>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">On Jan 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, <a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net" target="_blank">DaveL322@comcast.net</a>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
<u></u><br>
<u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
There has never been guidance for s+g downgrades in AMA or FAI.....which is why
I have always advocated s+g should be eliminated from the judging criteria.
Of course if I am mistaken about the goal of pattern being precision
aerobatics, then maybe s+g should be the only criteria.<br>
<br>
I've never gotten an answer to this question. How can a geometrically
perfect maneuver be outscored by a geometrically flawed maneuver? Of
course with the new FAI scoring.....it would seem that geometrically perfect
maneuver might only be scored a 5.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">-----
Reply message -----<br>
From: "Ronald Van Putte" <<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" target="_blank">vanputte@cox.net</a>><br>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 09:49<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Another discussion topic relating to new
FAIrules<br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">After thinking about this further, I wonder how the change in
ranking affects anything. Positioning has specific downgrades (2
point downgrade for each 1/4 of the maneuver off center). However, I am
unaware of any specific downgrades for smoothness and gracefulness. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Ron Van Putte<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Begin forwarded message:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-left:1.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">From: </span></font></b><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica">Ronald Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" target="_blank">vanputte@cox.net</a>></span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">Date: </span></font></b><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica">January 31, 2012 8:24:56 AM CST</span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">To: </span></font></b><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica">General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></font></b><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:bold">Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Another discussion topic relating to new FAIrules</span></font></b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></font></b><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica">General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
<u></u><br>
<u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">That's interesting. I know #2. and #3. were in reverse order
before. I don't remember a rules change vote on this. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Ron Van Putte<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">On Jan 31, 2012, at 8:19 AM, Bob Kane wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5in;margin-left:2.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">FWIW, this is identical to to the ranking in the AMA Competition
regulations:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From the current AMA document (RCA-12):<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold">1.</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Precision of the maneuver.</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold">2.</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Smoothness and gracefulness of the
maneuver. </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold">3.</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Positioning or display of the maneuver.</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold">4. </span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Size or dimensions of the maneuver
relative to the maneuvering area, distance from the judges, and other maneuvers
in the flight. </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The above criteria are listed in order of importance;
however, all of them must be met for a maneuver to be rated perfect. </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Bob Kane <a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com" target="_blank">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><b><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial">
</font></b></p><div style="MIN-HEIGHT:0px"><b><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b></div><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial"> J N Hiller <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target="_blank">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 31, 2012
3:51 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Another discussion topic relating to new FAIrules</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I would have thought positioning rated a higher precision
aerobatics. Smoothness and gracefulness is polish.</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Jim</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:2.5in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><a href="mailto:tocdon@netscape.net" target="_blank">tocdon@netscape.net</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 30, 2012
6:06 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Another discussion topic relating to new FAIrules</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">This will keep the list going (and the discussions too). I
recall Michael Ramel clearly discussing the future of the rules during the
judges training at the World Championships at Muncie. This
was relating to smoothness and gracefulness being directly related to
constant speed. The following reflects what he discussed, as cited on
page 35, and effect the way a score is awarded:</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Geometry: 50%</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Smoothness and Gracefulness: 25%</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Position of maneuver: 12.5%</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Size of maneuver: 12.5%</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Proportion of the maneuver outside the (box) in addition to above.</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">The specific, objective criteria used to judge smoothness and
gracefulness includes, "maintaining constant speed throughout various
maneuver components, like climbing and decending sections..."</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Also the sentence about radii being very loose or very tight,
even if equal size within a maneuver, are grounds for downgrade
of smoothness and gracefulness.</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Cheers,</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:2.0in;margin-left:3.0in;border:none;padding:0in"><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Don</span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<pre style="margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:1.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;padding:0in"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></tt></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><font color="black"><span style><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div>
<div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><br><br>
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