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<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>Dave.. Love how you win your
discussions.. lol .. ;+} </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>
Del</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave
Lockhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Main
battery redundant lead for receiver</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2006<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">9411sa
x2 for ailerons<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">8417sa
x1 for elevator<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">8411sa
x1 for rudder<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2009<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Changed
to 3517 x2 for elevator (in the same plane)….no change in mah per
flight<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2010<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Changed
to 8611A on rudder (in the same plane)….no change in mah per
flight<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Flight
times are about 45 seconds shorter now.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
still have the Prestige I flew in 2006, so no change to control surface size
or throw.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m
pretty sure it is the changes in maneuvers flown and higher average watts used
by the motor in the course of the flight. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Peter
Vogel<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Main battery
redundant lead for receiver<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Digital servos *definitely* draw more power than
non-digitals, but they are much more precise and hold their position better,
it's worth the higher draw for pattern.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Peter+<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Doug Cronkhite <<A
href="mailto:seefo@san.rr.com">seefo@san.rr.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I suspect the servos also draw more power than they did
years ago.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Doug <BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On Jan 24, 2012, at 3:40
PM, "Dave Lockhart" <<A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net"
target=_blank>DaveL322@comcast.net</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">When
I first started flying electric pattern…..mah per flight was noticeably
lower than now, going from 40-60 per flight to 60-80 per flight…..flying
whatever was the current P/F sequences. I suspect the increase is due
to higher average flight speeds (much more watts at the motor now) and more
demanding maneuvers (snaps and KE).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Keith Hoard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:02
AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Main battery redundant lead for
receiver</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Anthony,<BR><BR> On a typical flight, I'm
guessing the radio only uses around 100-150Mah of power, while the motor is
using 4000Mah, so that's about 4% more draw on those two cells. In
practice, I haven't been able to see any difference in the radio cells when
I hook them up to my charger at the end of a flight. Sometimes cells
#1 & #2 are the high cells after a flight, so I think the power draw of
the radio is negligible to our motor packs.<BR><BR>The problem with two
regulators plugged into the same 10S (or 5S) pack is that you are creating a
dead short between the cells thru the ground wires (typically a straight
wire thru the regulator). <BR><BR>Say you plug Regulator #1 into cells
#1&2, and Regulator #2 into cells #6&7. The regulator's
<B><I>ground </I></B>wires now have 5 cells of voltage potential (5 X 4.2V =
21Volts) between them since they are plugged into cells # 1 and #6.
When those two ground wires are then plugged into your receiver either thru
a switch or direct connection the magic smoke will escape and your retailer
will rejoice.<BR><BR>Also, if you have both of your regulators plugged into
your motor pack and the packs eject like Goose in Top Gun, you've lost both
of your redundant power sources. However, if you use a tiny 2S LiPo
that is physically separated and secured inside your plane, you have both
electrical and physical redundancy. <BR><BR>Hmmm, just thought of
something . . . maybe we should tie down the receiver so the main regulator
can't take the receiver out with it. . . so many contingencies, so little
weight . . .<BR clear=all><BR>Keith Hoard<BR>Collierville, TN<BR><A
href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com"
target=_blank>khoard@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Anthony Romano <<A
href="mailto:anthonyr105@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>anthonyr105@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Seems like a great idea but I have two questions. Do the
packs come down out of balance since two cells are serving extra
load? Is there a problem with parallel operation of two
regulators?<BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR> <BR>Anthony<BR> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>From: <A href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com"
target=_blank>joddino@socal.rr.com</A><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:25:00
-0800<BR>To: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Main battery redundant lead for receiver<BR><BR>I've been
using this setup for sometime and it is working great. I have my two
cell LiPo charged to 7.5 volts and it is connected to a 6.0 volt regulator
into the receiver. The cable connected to the balance connector on the
"bottom" 5S is connected to a 6.3 volt regulator so it supplies all the
current to the system and the 2S pack never needs charging. I'm using
an 800 mAh pack but it could be even smaller. <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Jim O<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Scott McHarg
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Guys,<BR> Chris Moon just e-mailed me about
some leads that were done at the factory. These leads run off your
balance leads to a voltage regulator and allow your main battery pack to
be utilized as a redundant receiver battery. It is NOT meant to be a
primary but it will save 20+ grams if you're running 2 rx batteries.
You still have to run the 2nd regulator for true redundancy but you
eliminate the 2nd battery. These leads are factory made and
eliminate the need to make them yourself with the concern about plugging
in to the wrong cell. I know in my article, I was pretty much
against doing this as a backup but, with Chris having this made at the
factory, he has all but eliminated making a mistake by tying to the wrong
cell. I have the link that I'll e-mail you off-list or you can just
go to his website. I don't want to break the NSRCA list rules by
advertising for him even though he advertises with the NSRCA. The
leads are only $3.99 each and are found under the Connectors/Adapters
listing.<BR><BR>Thank,<BR>Scott<BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #3333ff; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Scott
A.
McHarg</SPAN></B><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft
Skypark<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><IMG id=_x0000_i1026 border=0
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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