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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>Are we going FAA definition of sunset on
this one?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Hoard<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 13, 2011
7:57 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
NATS 2012</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>All camping gear weight limits will be strictly
enforced when on AMA property, especially during the Nats. All campsites
will be operated to the letter of the rulebook during the 2012 Nats. When
checking in at AMA HQ, your gear will be measured and weighed, and we will be
sending Intermediate pilots over to your campsite to ensure strict compliance
once in the morning, at sunset, at 2 a.m., and at random times in between.<br>
<br>
Good luck.<br>
<br>
Keith Hoard<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Collierville</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">TN</st1:State></st1:place><br>
<a href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Toby Email <<a
href="mailto:torqueroller2000@yahoo.com">torqueroller2000@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>How many people tent camped at the last Nats?
Thinking about taking my boys to go camping. Thanks. Toby<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On Dec 12, 2011, at 4:19 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <<a
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I suppose you have
all heard my objections to and the pointless nature of the existing
weight limit. In the interest of promoting the sport and the nationals I
would encourage a tolerance level of 8 ounces and weigh the planes at the beginning
of the contest and forget about it until finals day. On that day weigh
the finalists and do the contest. This unfortunately has turned into a
weight contest-not a flying contest. I have heard all the arguments about
how easy it is to make weight and it is easy to build light aircraft…blah, blah
blah., well, I disagree and the weight rule is pointless. It does
not affect anything to have a little heavier aircraft, and in most instances is
much safer to have aircraft that are a little heavier but much stronger ,thus
much safer. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>As event director,
you can implement mods to the rules for the above reasons-promote the sport,
safety and whatever else. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I very much support
FAI, but they pretty much have blown us off as far as input but they sure
don’t blow off our serious financial support. I disagree with them on
this point and I have discussed the issue with a few of them including the head
of CIAM and they gave me absolutely no compelling argument for the restrictive
weight rule.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I would encourage
you minimize your manpower usage in that area. I would never want that
job.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>M2c</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Mike </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, December 12, 2011
1:39 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion;
General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
NATS 2012</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I certainly understand there are challenges, and I'm
also almost certain that these challenges can be worked through, especially if
we maybe only end up weighing once per day or something. We are working
on the logistics now and will have a better plan after the first of the
year. The rules will be followed though and after calibrating the scales
there will not be allowances above the rules. If an airplane is weighed and
comes in heavy, we will recalibrate the scales and verify they were correct.
My gut feeling is that not many planes will have a problem and constant
recalibration will not be necessary. We may find this is not
necessarily the case, but I would be surprised if it is as I have played with
the scales I have and after many weights of differing amounts the calibration
seems to hold true. My plan is after a flight the pilot brings the plane
back to a tent area, much like the worlds and the plane will be weighed
there. If the plane is under weight, nothing else happens and his scores
will be submitted to the score keeper. If the plane is over weight the
site director will come inside the tent area and verify the over weight
plane. Obviously in this case the scales would be recalibrated. If
the plane is still overweight the pilot will receive a zero score for that
round, but will be allowed to fly his next round. A pilot could if he
wanted fail every weight check, and just get no scores for those rounds.
I have no doubt there will be growing pains involved, but my hope is that if pilots
know 8 months in advance that they will be weighed that they will take the
steps necessary to ensure the aircraft is under weight prior to arriving in
Muncie. I understand logistically this may pose some problems, but we do
have quite a bit of man power available with intermediate pilots now being part
of the judging pool. Granted, they would not be able to do this during
the time they are flying, but then we would only need 3 additional people per
day, which we can take from the other classes. Having spoken to many
people involved, we don't see that there is any reason why we should not be
able to do this with adequate planning. I have verified that we have
access to the tents that were used at the worlds and one will be setup at each
location on Sunday before the pilots meeting to allow pilots to verify the
weight of their aircraft. If a pilot chooses not to take
advantage of this opportunity it is on them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Arch<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon 12/12/11 1:52 PM , Ronald Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net"
target="_blank">vanputte@cox.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #5167C6 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>All I can say about weighing every airplane at processing and maybe
after every flight is: good luck. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>John Fuqua and I did all the weighing at the at the F3A WC last year.
There were 82 contestants and many had two airplanes. We weighed
every one of them at processing. That's a lot of weighing. Then, we
weighed every electric-powered airplane after every flight. In addition,
we weighed the glow-powered airplanes whose owners were unlucky to pull the
"wrong" ball after each flight. We worked from the prelims
through the finals and neither of us want to do it again. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>We were particularly unhappy that a weight tolerance was given, even
though we provided accurate scales and calibration weights with certification
papers. What was done appeared to be counter to F3A rules. I
understand why a weight tolerance will be given to Intermediate pilots, but
hope the the 5000 gram limit will apply to all the rest of the competitors.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #5167C6 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hello everyone. I trust that everyone is anxiously awaiting a shiny new
<a href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=7016"
target="_blank"
title="Link this word and every other one like it in our forum to YOUR Website!"><font
color=black><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>pattern</span></font></a>
plane or gizmo arriving at Christmas this year. I realize we are a ways away
from the NATS 2012, but its never too early to start communicating. The
official entry forms are now online at the following link. <a
href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx" target="_blank"><font
color="#00265e"><span style='color:#00265E'>http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx</span></font></a>
Entry forms will still be mailed to those who attended last year, but for
anyone wishing to get a jump on things and get registered now you can download
the entry form and send them in. I <a
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=5582"
target="_blank"
title="Link this word and every other one like it in our forum to YOUR Website!"><font
color=black><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>plan</span></font></a>
to start putting out monthly status updates after the first of the year so that
everyone knows where things stand. I have a great group of people who have
volunteered to help and everything is coming together very nicely. <br>
<br>
A few things worth mentionings are that the banquet will be held the <a
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=6133"
target="_blank"
title="Link this word and every other one like it in our forum to YOUR Website!"><font
color=black><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>night</span></font></a>
before the finals this year. It will be held on site at the banquet area at the
museum and will be catered. Final catering details have not been finalized yet.
At this banquet, the Masters and FAI finalists will be announced and flight
orders drawn. This is possible this year due to the rule change that there will
no longer be an unknowns meeting per the new FAI rules. The unknowns will be created
by the Event Director and handed out to the finalists at the banquet. This will
also allow the Intermediate and Advanced winners to be announced in front of
the entire group. <br>
<br>
Another item to be aware of is that EVERY airplane will be weighed this year.
We are still finalizing plans on the most efficient way to do this, but be
aware that every airplane will be weighed this year and it will be after a
flight. Ideally they will be weighed after every flight, but at least once a
day is my goal. We learned a lot from how it was done at the worlds last year
and this should not be difficult to do as we have intermediate pilots who no
longer work transmitter impound that we can use as well as some other people
involved. As I said, the plans are not finalized, but we are working very hard
on them and after the first of the year I will let everyone know what we have
come up with as a final plan. My goal is to stay in contact with everyone so
that no one can say they didn't know. <br>
<br>
One other important piece of information are the cut off deadlines. They will
be strictly enforced. They have been moved slightly closer to the actual start
of the NATS, but no entries after the final deadline will be accepted. No
exceptions. One change though is that up until the final cut off we will be
able to issue refunds. We will not be able to issue the refund from the AMA
part of the entry fee, but the NSRCA part of the fee will be refunded. <br>
<br>
Looking forward to seeing everyone in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Muncie</st1:place></st1:City>
in July. <br>
<br>
Please limit discussions to useful information regarding this thread. Also, if
you have a complaint on how things have been done, I am more than open to
listen, but please have ideas on how to correct these issues. <br>
<br>
Archie Stafford <br>
2012 Pattern NATS ED <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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