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Very poor reception at the Pocono field in D1.<br>
<br>
And yes you have been blamed multiple times for holding up a contest
waiting for your score sheets :)<br>
<br>
On 12/9/2011 9:14 AM, Anthony Romano wrote:
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<div dir="ltr">
Peter,<br>
<br>
Thank you for taking the initiative to bring forth this idea.
Working in manufacturing I know how much people like to shoot at
a something new.<br>
<br>
Personally, I think this would be a great system. The
ideas of capturing downgrades to a reviewable screen that would
be sent via wifi to the scoring computer is great. I am always
the last judge to submit my sheets for the time it takes me to
transcribe them. Reducing the anxiety of knowing I am holding up
the flight line would definitely make judging a more pleasurable
experience and I may even get better at it.<br>
Also, cutting down the time that volunteers are chained to the
computer punching in scores is tremendous.<br>
Of course there will be bugs and issues and someone will be
running around pulling there hair out looking for score sheets
and pencils at first but we could certainly make this happen.
The scorekeeper is the toughest and most critical job at any
contest. Anything that simplifies the process will make it
easier and more fun to run contests!<br>
<br>
I just got an iPad and don't have a smart phone so I can't
comment on 3G in D1. Most of the sites in the district do have
reasonable cell service if that is any indication. Also, I would
happily volunteer my iPad for use in the future.<br>
<br>
I love the new scoring database that has been built and the
ability to review scores, weeks and months later as well as
compare scores in other districts. Thanks to all who made this
happen! It is the hard work of so many volunteers that makes all
of this great sport possible.<br>
<br>
Anthony Romano<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:49:24 -0800<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular
data service at the fields where you compete<br>
<br>
We haven't talked about paper yet...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At a bare minimum all scores would be kept on the local
device as well, in essence you'd have 3 electronic copies of
all scores when everything goes right: on the local device,
in the cloud, and on the scoring computer. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Little blue tooth printers that print on cash register
receipt paper are very inexpensive and could be used to
print if a paper trail is needed (i.e. for the nats) as a
backup to the electronics.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter+<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM,
Dave Burton <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="ecxgmail_quote">Is it really a
good idea to give up a paper trail of scores? What
happens when the system fails and you lose a whole
flight, or round, or contest, before the data is
captured by a scoring computer with some sort of back
up?<br>
But that could never happen with today's computer
technology, right?<br>
<span class="ecxHOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Dave<br>
</font></span>
<div class="ecxHOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:46 PM<br>
To: Marty King<br>
Cc: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re:
cellular data service at the fields where you
compete<br>
<br>
What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms. 1
point & 1/2 point deductions and enter. When
you hit enter, the systen gives you next manuever
in one ear head phone and store the deductions of
previous manuever. Just dreaming but could be good.
How many times we miss something important because
we don't remember the next manuever? Always keep
pencil and paper as backup just in case. If judging
FAI and judge hits 1/2 point will advice in the ear
phone that is not valid option in FAI.<br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Marty King &<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lt%3Bmking46516@yahoo.com">lt;mking46516@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: General pattern discussion &<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lt%3Bnsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re:
cellular data service at the fields where you
compete<br>
Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring
at the both the district level and Nats I have to
chime in.<br>
I have found, that since I use both a tablet and
Iphone for all my communication these days, you can
not be 100% sure of a consistent keystroke on a
touch screen. And if you miss just one well placed
digit, it distracts you and sets off a lot of
unwanted fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a file
that could be checked by the judge for correctness
prior to being sent over the wireless, there would
be a lot of issues. As a point of history we moved
off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do
several things. One big one was to try and put the
judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was to
lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had
to do (we were using outside scribes) Then third was
to have three eyes checking the data, the judges to
make sure the score sheet was filled in completely,
the data entry person to input and a data
verification person to check the data.<br>
I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4
or 5.8) may have some merit, especially if used at
the Nats, we could send and import a judges complete
score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be
used for the raw scoring, but as now, it could be
transferred instead to a wireless device instead of
a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or
server. This would alleviate the second check of
the data at scoring, as no data would actually be
keypunched. You also would not need runners and
scoring would take place even more timely than it
already does now. If any questions would arise (as
they do at the Nats) we could go back to the judges
scoring pad on site for final verification. Right
now we simply pull the score sheet and handle the
issue.<br>
We had similar issues with ones writing directly on
the Scantron score sheets, not watching the plane,
loosing their place.... Before we changed to hand
written score sheets in 2005, I went through the
2003 & 2004 Scantron sheets and there were a LOT
of errors and NO's on them.<br>
If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me
now.....) and it isn't by a long shot in many areas
of the county, sending individual keystrokes would
be a challenge.<br>
One other system some of you may be aware of is in
the field of Education. There are classroom systems
out that allow students using handheld clickers
(think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in
real time. The data is collected and displayed, how
many right, how many wrong etc. This is based on
both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and
prices for systems range from 500.00 up to 2495.00.
The problem still is hitting the correct keys
consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005
we had students that said they answered correctly,
but the software said otherwise. Either they lied or
maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to
check, as the clickers do not hold a file, they were
real time.<br>
Real time data entry is fast. However, in
competition consistency and accuracy is a must, but
it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a
way to double check and verify. I know competitors
want true and accurate scores. Otherwise, there is
no reason to fly in front of judges.<br>
Just a few thoughts,<br>
Marty<br>
D4<br>
NSRCA 2551<br>
AMA 9945 CD LM<br>
Marty King<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank">574-304-5781</a><br>
56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Phil S. <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re:
cellular data service at the fields where you
compete<br>
Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my
career studying<br>
driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving
simulator. I have said<br>
for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and
hands-on-wheel (with the<br>
"hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind
on-driving-task. I have used<br>
the van Putte method, and it WORKS. People can NOT
multitask, any more<br>
than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is
swapped out, it task<br>
will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.<br>
On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:<br>
>Hear we go<br>
again!<br>
>Keeping 'eyes<br>
on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's
concentration or<br>
thought is<br>
elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to
operate a remote devise<br>
will<br>
likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of
us willing to admit<br>
it. I<br>
find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a
clipboard to be the<br>
least distracting.<br>
><br>
>Jim<br>
--<br>
Phil Spelt, KCRC President<br>
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member<br>
SPA 177 Board Member<br>
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c<br>
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