<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi All,<div><br></div><div>I am the guy in D8 that wrote the excel based scoring program. I am pretty active in D8 and have been for the last 11 years. I was the D8 VP for 4 years and have CDed a number of contests. As a result I have a pretty good idea how events are run in D8 and I developed the program to fit our needs. My wife and I run the scoring in a lot of our contests so we really know what helps reduce the work load of running a contest. I wrote this for fun because I felt a lot of what was needed already existed in excel and I thought it would be fun to write a scoring program that used excel spreadsheet functions and VBA. We have been using it for several years and I think its worked pretty well.</div><div>My advice would be to try new ideas, if you are an active pattern flier and have a good idea then build it and give it a go. This is the fun part of pattern for me, you can try things out and see what works. Its real hard to get group consenses on just about anything. I bet if I would have said a few years a go that we should build a scoring program using excel, people would have all kinds of reasons why it would never work.</div><div><br></div><div>--Gordon</div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 8, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Dave Burton wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>So we'd need to have two score systems to use? I don't think this idea is<br>ready for prime time yet.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente<br>"Vince" Bortone<br>Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 9:56 PM<br>To: General pattern discussion<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br><br>The use of this device shall be judge option. Paper pad and pencil always<br>available at judge chair. <br><br>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: J N Hiller &lt;<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>&gt;<br>To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:23:00 -0000 (UTC)<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>Often we don't have 3 seconds before the next observable defect needs to be<br>posted. Now I need to remember all this and sequence downgrade clicking,<br>monitoring conformations playing catch up while continuing to keep up with<br>the flight. No thanks, bring on the scratch pad.<br>Jim<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Vicente<br>"Vince" Bortone<br>Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:08 PM<br>To: General pattern discussion<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>Hit enter and hold for more than 3 seconds for zero score. The headphone<br>tells you total downgrade every time you hit a down grade. For me uno, dos,<br>three opppppps cero.<br>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: J N Hiller &lt;<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>&gt;<br>To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:07:30 -0000 (UTC)<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>Should two or more mandated downgrades have dedicated buttons? If so how<br>many or do we need to count the clicks while loading defects. What about<br>zeros? Keeping track of a number of clicks distracts from concentrating on a<br>flight that in reality is to be judged from box entry to box exit. I believe<br>the activity of accumulating deductions in real time is more efficiently<br>done in our head. The score number can be kicked down from 10 almost<br>instantly with little thought as we observe ongoing defects. The biggest<br>distraction is instant recall of maneuver specifics such as mandatory<br>downgrades, inverted / upright entry and exits and the necessary roll<br>direction and number of points to meet the requirement. I personally would<br>have a problem trying to stay on top of all this while counting clicks or<br>using more than a couple dedicated buttons. Yes it could become second<br>nature with enough training and practice. Not many of spend that much time<br>in the judging chair.<br>Jim<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Vicente<br>"Vince" Bortone<br>Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:46 PM<br>To: Marty King<br>Cc: General pattern discussion<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms. 1 point & 1/2 point deductions<br>and enter. When you hit enter, the systen gives you next manuever in one ear<br>head phone and store the deductions of previous manuever. Just dreaming but<br>could be good. How many times we miss something important because we don't<br>remember the next manuever? Always keep pencil and paper as backup just in<br>case. If judging FAI and judge hits 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone<br>that is not valid option in FAI.<br>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Marty King &lt;<a href="mailto:mking46516@yahoo.com">mking46516@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the district<br>level and Nats I have to chime in.<br>I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my<br>communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent keystroke<br>on a touch screen. And if you miss just one well placed digit, it distracts<br>you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a<br>file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to being sent<br>over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of history we<br>moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several things. One<br>big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was<br>to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had to do (we were using<br>outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes checking the data, the<br>judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in completely, the data entry<br>person to input and a data verification person to check the data.<br>I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some<br>merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges<br>complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the<br>raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless<br>device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server.<br>This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data<br>would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring<br>would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any questions<br>would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the judges scoring<br>pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull the score sheet<br>and handle the issue.<br>We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score<br>sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed to<br>hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004 Scantron<br>sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.<br>If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by a<br>long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes would<br>be a challenge.<br>One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education.<br>There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers<br>(think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is<br>collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based<br>on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems<br>range from 500.00 up to 2495.00. The problem still is hitting the correct<br>keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students<br>that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either<br>they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as the<br>clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.<br>Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and<br>accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a<br>way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate<br>scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.<br>Just a few thoughts,<br>Marty<br>D4<br>NSRCA 2551<br>AMA 9945 CD LM<br>Marty King<br>574-304-5781<br>56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516<br>________________________________<br> From: Phil S. <<a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>><br>To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>the fields where you compete<br>Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying<br>driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator. I have said<br>for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the<br>"hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task. I have used<br>the van Putte method, and it WORKS. People can NOT multitask, any more<br>than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task<br>will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.<br>On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Hear we go<br></blockquote>again!<br><blockquote type="cite">Keeping 'eyes<br></blockquote>on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's concentration or<br>thought is<br>elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise<br>will<br>likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit<br>it. I<br>find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the<br>least distracting.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Jim<br></blockquote>--<br>Phil Spelt, KCRC President<br>AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member<br>SPA 177 Board Member<br>(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>