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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi Gordon,
having used Excel at work I would have as well. When I returned to pattern I
was immediately impressed with the depth and detail your scoring system gave me
after every round. It helped in personal assessment of skill deficiencies.
Great! Absolutely great!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As our needs
exceeded Excel's capacity, somewhere over 40000 lines as I remember we migrated
to MS Access for remote warehouse inventory management, continuing to use linked
Excel queries mostly to load pivot tables, which refreshed on opening, for slicing
and dicing data. I kind of miss it. It was fun. Retirement is OK too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gordon Anderson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 08, 2011
7:47 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Quick question re: cellular data service atthe fields where you compete</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hi All,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I am the guy
in D8 that wrote the excel based scoring program. I am pretty active in D8 and
have been for the last 11 years. I was the D8 VP for 4 years and have CDed a
number of contests. As a result I have a pretty good idea how events are run in
D8 and I developed the program to fit our needs. My wife and I run the scoring
in a lot of our contests so we really know what helps reduce the work load of
running a contest. I wrote this for fun because I felt a lot of what was needed
already existed in excel and I thought it would be fun to write a scoring
program that used excel spreadsheet functions and VBA. We have been using it
for several years and I think its worked pretty well.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>My advice
would be to try new ideas, if you are an active pattern flier and have a good
idea then build it and give it a go. This is the fun part of pattern for me,
you can try things out and see what works. Its real hard to get group consenses
on just about anything. I bet if I would have said a few years a go that we
should build a scoring program using excel, people would have all kinds of
reasons why it would never work.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--Gordon</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Dec 8,
2011, at 7:23 PM, Dave Burton wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br
style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>So we'd need to have two score systems to
use? I don't think this idea is<br>
ready for prime time yet.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente<br>
"Vince" Bortone<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 9:56 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
<br>
The use of this device shall be judge option. Paper pad and pencil
always<br>
available at judge chair. <br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: J N Hiller &lt;<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>&gt;<br>
To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:23:00 -0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
Often we don't have 3 seconds before the next observable defect needs to be<br>
posted. Now I need to remember all this and sequence downgrade clicking,<br>
monitoring conformations playing catch up while continuing to keep up with<br>
the flight. No thanks, bring on the scratch pad.<br>
Jim<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Vicente<br>
"Vince" Bortone<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:08 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
Hit enter and hold for more than 3 seconds for zero score. The headphone<br>
tells you total downgrade every time you hit a down grade. For me uno, dos,<br>
three opppppps cero.<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: J N Hiller &lt;<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>&gt;<br>
To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:07:30 -0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
Should two or more mandated downgrades have dedicated buttons? If so how<br>
many or do we need to count the clicks while loading defects. What about<br>
zeros? Keeping track of a number of clicks distracts from concentrating on a<br>
flight that in reality is to be judged from box entry to box exit. I believe<br>
the activity of accumulating deductions in real time is more efficiently<br>
done in our head. The score number can be kicked down from 10 almost<br>
instantly with little thought as we observe ongoing defects. The biggest<br>
distraction is instant recall of maneuver specifics such as mandatory<br>
downgrades, inverted / upright entry and exits and the necessary roll<br>
direction and number of points to meet the requirement. I personally would<br>
have a problem trying to stay on top of all this while counting clicks or<br>
using more than a couple dedicated buttons. Yes it could become second<br>
nature with enough training and practice. Not many of spend that much time<br>
in the judging chair.<br>
Jim<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Vicente<br>
"Vince" Bortone<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:46 PM<br>
To: Marty King<br>
Cc: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms. 1 point & 1/2 point
deductions<br>
and enter. When you hit enter, the systen gives you next manuever in one ear<br>
head phone and store the deductions of previous manuever. Just dreaming but<br>
could be good. How many times we miss something important because we don't<br>
remember the next manuever? Always keep pencil and paper as backup just in<br>
case. If judging FAI and judge hits 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone<br>
that is not valid option in FAI.<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Marty King &lt;<a href="mailto:mking46516@yahoo.com">mking46516@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the district<br>
level and Nats I have to chime in.<br>
I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my<br>
communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent keystroke<br>
on a touch screen. And if you miss just one well placed digit, it distracts<br>
you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a<br>
file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to being sent<br>
over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of history we<br>
moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several things. One<br>
big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was<br>
to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had to do (we were using<br>
outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes checking the data, the<br>
judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in completely, the data entry<br>
person to input and a data verification person to check the data.<br>
I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some<br>
merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges<br>
complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the<br>
raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless<br>
device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server.<br>
This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data<br>
would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring<br>
would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any questions<br>
would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the judges scoring<br>
pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull the score sheet<br>
and handle the issue.<br>
We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score<br>
sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed to<br>
hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004 Scantron<br>
sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.<br>
If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by a<br>
long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes would<br>
be a challenge.<br>
One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education.<br>
There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers<br>
(think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is<br>
collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based<br>
on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems<br>
range from 500.00 up to 2495.00. The problem still is hitting the correct<br>
keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students<br>
that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either<br>
they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as the<br>
clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.<br>
Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and<br>
accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a<br>
way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate<br>
scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.<br>
Just a few thoughts,<br>
Marty<br>
D4<br>
NSRCA 2551<br>
AMA 9945 CD LM<br>
Marty King<br>
574-304-5781<br>
56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Phil S. <<a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at<br>
the fields where you compete<br>
Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying<br>
driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator. I have said<br>
for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the<br>
"hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task. I have used<br>
the van Putte method, and it WORKS. People can NOT multitask, any more<br>
than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task<br>
will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.<br>
On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hear we go</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>again!<br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Keeping 'eyes</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>on airplane' is of little benefit when the
brain's concentration or<br>
thought is<br>
elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise<br>
will<br>
likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit<br>
it. I<br>
find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the<br>
least distracting.<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jim</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--<br>
Phil Spelt, KCRC President<br>
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member<br>
SPA 177 Board Member<br>
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c<br>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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