<div>Hi John,</div><div><br></div>Let's assume for the moment that the interface is to click the volume up button to deduct .5/1 point depending on AMA or FAI schedule being judged, if you double click it you deduct 1 point for AMA, 1 point for FAI (since sometimes people judge both and be used to double-clicking to deduct a point). Touch the screen anywhere to enter the score on the scratchpad and move to the next maneuver.<div>
<br></div><div>After the last maneuver is scored on the "scratch pad" (landing for AMA, whatever for FAI) you can look at the screen, now you see the maneuver schedule with the score you scratch padded for each maneuver. With a +/- button next to each score (or underneath to change the currently selected score) so you can make corrections (again moving by .5 or 1 point each) and the scorepad scrolls as necessary to fit all the maneuvers. When you are happy, click "Submit" and the scores are sent to the server and will be delivered to the scoring system on-site as well.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I've looked at the scoring summary analysis (until last night I actually thought it was part of PACSS itself) and I promise that would be a part of the contestant interface for this, along with being able to look across contests, etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The possibility for using aggregation of the score data has been in my mind for a while as well -- I believe some aggregation of scores by judges at the nats was used/proposed sometime back to evaluate judges fairly for nomination to judge at the worlds, I don't know if that's still in use... with modern Map/Reduce data aggregation capabilities the possibilities are endless :-) But first we have to get the data universally to the cloud with a common understanding of every contestant across all possible contests, something that's possible through what I'm envisioning.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Peter+</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:40 PM, John Gayer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br>
<br>
Peter,<br>
I still don't see how you are going to overcome the GIGO factor when
judges forget the enter key or hit it twice after the accumulated
downgrades and they <i>will</i> do this. Many judges will have
difficulty in correcting the scores in the scratchpad even if they
can figure out what they did wrong. After multiple delays trying to
fix a few of those issues and having some reflights, reversion to
the old system will be rapid. And that is if the system itself works
perfectly, no bugs, no dropped data, no missing scoresheets. <br>
<br>
If you want to apply your software expertise to the scoring system,
how about working with Gene on the post-contest scoring summary
analysis part of PACSS. The system from District 8 is very good in
this regard. Also a maneuver by maneuver breakdown of scoring where
you can see which maneuvers to work on and how they stack up against
the competition. It would be really good to have a national scoring
system that is used by everyone and the first step would be to
consolidate the various system capabilities.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
John</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/8/2011 4:08 PM, Robert L. Beaubien wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
only field I have had questionable coverage at is Maloof
Field in Albuquerque, NM. Sprint was weak, and using 1x
data when I was there. That was at least 2 years ago. I
have been to most of the fields in southern California and
in Arizona and all have had good coverage.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-
Robert Beaubien<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-
D7 Webmaster<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">"No
trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a
large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced."<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Peter Vogel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marty King; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re:
cellular data service at the fields where you compete<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I guess most of you don't know me, so it's
probably worth an introduction :-) I've been writing software
professionally for the past 25 years and have spent the last
10 building cloud-based services for small businesses and
helping 3rd party developers interact with our cloud services.
On the pattern side, I've flown RC for almost as long as I've
been writing code, and always told myself I'd get a pattern
plane "when I can afford it" -- well, now that my daughter is
older and I've got 25 years under my career belt, I can afford
it and bought a 62" Osiris to test the waters, fell in love
instantly and had the confidence to start competing in
Sportsman this year -- now I have 2 Osirii and 1 Vanquish with
another one on the way for my backup. So I'm pretty new to
competing + judging, not new to watching competitions (I guess
I'm one of those weirdos who likes to watch paint dry :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Completely agree on the keystroke,
wouldn't even want to have a typical number pad with
everything too close together. I like the deduction
clicker, but would provide a preference-based interface to
also use a simple touch interface. It would *definitely*
keep scores in local device memory until the judge had
reviewed the whole scoresheet and decided to "send" the
scoresheet. I would never do a keystroke to the cloud based
interface, it would be too slow and unreliable as marty
notes. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This all started in my head when I noted
how scoring/timing was done at my daughter's swim meets vs.
the manual pain of entering scores into PACSS, etc. I also
want to be able to offer some cool services for the pilots
to analyze their data over time, long after they've
forgotten who the judges were for round X of event Y. I can
look at the raw scores for the competitions I've been a part
of and I *think* I've been improving over the past several
months, but that's not clear from the scores because the
judges have been very different. I expect over the next
year I'll be in front of the same people more times and I'll
be able to start seeing a trend + or -, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reading about the Nats + Worlds drove it
home for me even more, we can do better by leveraging
technology (when it's available) and this is a way for me to
contribute to the pattern community the way Gene has with
PACSS, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've also spent the last 10 years at a
company that is almost obsessive in their attention to the
customer, the user of the software, so I know I won't get it
completely right the first time and I'll have to get input
from y'all -- my "customers" for this in order to make this
a truly workable system, that's already started with some of
the feedback I've heard in this thread :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Which brings me back to the question at
hand: how many fields have you been to in the last 2 years
where data service was NOT available for your smartphone (if
you have one)?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Peter+<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Marty
King <<a href="mailto:mking46516@yahoo.com" target="_blank">mking46516@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Spending the
past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both
the district level and Nats I have to chime in.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">I have found,
that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all
my communication these days, you can not be 100%
sure of a consistent keystroke on a touch screen.
And if you miss just one well placed digit, it
distracts you and sets off a lot of unwanted
fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a file that
could be checked by the judge for correctness
prior to being sent over the wireless, there would
be a lot of issues. As a point of history we moved
off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do
several things. One big one was to try and put the
judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was to
lower the expectation of what scribes, if used,
had to do (we were using outside scribes) Then
third was to have three eyes checking the data,
the judges to make sure the score sheet was filled
in completely, the data entry person to input and
a data verification person to check the data. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">I think the
wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8)
may have some merit, especially if used at the
Nats, we could send and import a judges complete
score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still
be used for the raw scoring, but as now, it could
be transferred instead to a wireless device
instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host
scoring PC or server. This would alleviate the
second check of the data at scoring, as no data
would actually be keypunched. You also would not
need runners and scoring would take place even
more timely than it already does now. If any
questions would arise (as they do at the Nats) we
could go back to the judges scoring pad on site
for final verification. Right now we simply pull
the score sheet and handle the issue. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">We had
similar issues with ones writing directly on the
Scantron score sheets, not watching the plane,
loosing their place.... Before we changed to hand
written score sheets in 2005, I went through the
2003 & 2004 Scantron sheets and there were a
LOT of errors and NO's on them. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">If the cell
system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and
it isn't by a long shot in many areas of the
county, sending individual keystrokes would be a
challenge. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">One other
system some of you may be aware of is in the field
of Education. There are classroom systems out that
allow students using handheld clickers (think of a
small TV remote) to enter answers in real time.
The data is collected and displayed, how many
right, how many wrong etc. This is based on both
Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and
prices for systems range from 500.00 up to
2495.00. The problem still is hitting the correct
keys consistently. When testing the first systems
in 2005 we had students that said they answered
correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either
they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There
was no way to check, as the clickers do not hold a
file, they were real time.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Real time
data entry is fast. However, in competition
consistency and accuracy is a must, but it is hard
to achieve both in real time. You need a way to
double check and verify. I know competitors want
true and accurate scores. Otherwise, there is no
reason to fly in front of judges.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Just a few
thoughts,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Marty<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">D4<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">NSRCA 2551<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">AMA 9945 CD
LM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:14.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Marty King<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><a href="tel:574-304-5781" target="_blank">574-304-5781</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">56632 Boss
Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
Phil S. <<a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" target="_blank">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick
question re: cellular data service at the
fields where you compete<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Jim is correct --
I spent the last 10 years of my career
studying driver distraction (for the
FHWA) in a driving simulator. I have
said for a LONG time, that
eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with
the "hands-free methods) does NOT mean
mind on-driving-task. I have used the
van Putte method, and it WORKS.
People can NOT multitask, any more
than a single-core CPU can, and while
one task is swapped out, it task will
suffer, no matter how short the
swap-time is.<br>
<br>
On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller
wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Hear
we go again!</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Keeping
'eyes on airplane' is of little
benefit when the brain's
concentration or thought is
elsewhere. The distraction
incurred trying to operate a
remote devise will likely outweigh
the benefits, at least for many of
us willing to admit it. I find
writing numbers in a line along
the edge of a clipboard to be the
least distracting.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Jim</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">-- <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Phil Spelt, KCRC President<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">SPA 177 Board Member<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- <br>
Did you know? Arthritis affects people in all age groups
including nearly 300,000 children.<br>
Please help me ride 525 miles down the California coast to
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Did you know? Arthritis affects people in all age groups including nearly 300,000 children.<br>
Please help me ride 525 miles down the California coast to support Arthritis Research<br><a href="http://2011cccnca.kintera.org/pvogel" target="_blank">http://2011cccnca.kintera.org/pvogel</a><br><br>
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