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<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>So true John. Many don't consider
what the effect will create for new blood that I thought was sadly needed. For
years many have said the changes that were made would not effect the bulk of
competion.. How wrong they have been proven. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>
Del</FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This
brings the specter of another technology war. Any everyone
complains about cost for newcomers and beginners ! Potentially
takes it to another level. Now everyone will need an IPhone and the TM
app to go with their other stuff.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Robert
L. Beaubien<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 25, 2011 3:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
agree with this wholeheartedly. The base rule for me from this is
“Closed Loop”. As long as the pilot is in 100% control of the aircraft,
whatever information he uses for deciding what to do is irrelevant, be it from
the caller, his eyes/ears, or telemetry.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">-
Robert Beaubien<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">-
D7 Webmaster<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">-<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">"No
trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Ford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 25, 2011 11:58
AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new radio
systems<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Sometimes, looking at the extreme case will give
clarity to the question at hand.<BR><BR>Some current technology is only
a short step away from the "extreme scenario"...consider my wish-list
ski goggles from Zeal Optics (Transcend model). <A
href="http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/01/recon-zeal-transcend-goggles-now-shipping-gps-and-head-mounted/">http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/01/recon-zeal-transcend-goggles-now-shipping-gps-and-head-mounted/</A><BR><BR>For
less than the cost of a set of good servos, these goggles display
directly to your right eye, GPS data such as speed, altitude, position,
mapping, and a host of other tidbits of info. <BR>I'm sure that by now,
some whiz-kid at Futaba or Spektrum has played around with a Bluetooth
link to goggles like this and very easily puts downlink telemetry into a
head-mounted display. <BR><BR>If that's the case, then so what? So,
we've succeeded in putting ourselves (and possibly anyone else,
including the judges) into the cockpit of our planes? Raises some
interesting questions, I think...<BR>1) I believe this doesn't create
any "closed loops"...at least no more than a full-scale aerobatic pilot
would have. Or does it? I still don't see any autopilots, flight
directors, or software that is slaved to the telemetry.<BR>2) It
certainly allows some critical safety data to be displayed or alarmed to
the pilot, but at what cost? <BR>3) Is there in fact someone who has the
brain-power processing ability to take in all this data (plus all the
usual visual and audible cues) and somehow translate it into an
advantage on the sticks? If no such person exists then there's no
problem. If such a person does exist, then are we simply saying that we
are threatened by the competitive consequences of this technology?<BR>4)
Judging by how many times society (or even our own hobby) has been faced
with new technology that certain groups found objectionable or that made
existing rules or laws obsolete...what has been the success rate of
being able to bury, ban, or repress that technology? <BR>5) If
technology eventually always becomes more affordable than the
traditional technology it replaces, is this evolution a good thing in
the long term, or only a bad thing in the short term, if in fact it
steers clear of the telemetry rule?<BR>6) If we were to count on this
for box violations, then does that imply that everyone would need a GPS
unit on their plane to be allowed to compete? If it was deemed to be a
safety feature, then does that imply everyone would need to have "safety
telemetry" to fly at the Nats, for example?<BR><BR>I don't disagree with
most of the posts, and I don't have better answers, but if I take a step
back, it seems to me that there are a number of interesting points to
ponder.<BR><BR>John<BR><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 11/25/11, Murray Johnson
<I><<A
href="mailto:murrjohnson@gmail.com">murrjohnson@gmail.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>From: Murray Johnson
<<A
href="mailto:murrjohnson@gmail.com">murrjohnson@gmail.com</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new radio systems<BR>To:
"General pattern discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, November 25, 2011, 12:16 PM<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV id=yiv20637682>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>I for one am all in
favour of any kind of technology that will in even a small amount
increase safety. I think with telemetry a lot of
mechanical/electrical issues could be reported well before a real flight
critical event happens. Any programmed parameter could trigger an alarm
if that parameter is exceeded and at the very least save an airframe.
Having said that, I am not in favour of any kind of information that may
be passed either by the caller reading the tx screen or even verbally
from the tx itself with regards to heading, altitude, speed or
aircraft attitude. I think this would create a certain advantage and of
course generate a cost increase in equipment. If this type of feedback
from the airframe is allowed, we will all have to spend the big bucks
just to remain competitive. Once we all have it......then what? The
techno playing field has been leveled and it will still be the skill of
the pilot which will determine the score outcome.......just as it is
today without telemetry. Same with the contra drives but that is another
touchy subject. If we are going to have an investment of 5k or so per
airframe I think I will have to start looking for crash insurance. Or
take up knitting.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 8:38 AM, John Ferrell <<A
href="/mc/compose?to=jferrell13@triad.rr.com"
target=_blank>jferrell13@triad.rr.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 11/25/2011 9:55 AM, Michael S. Harrison wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I agree with what you are saying
and that is how we currently do and perceive the plane. However,
this is a chance to embrace technology to make judging fairer and easier
reducing the bias, subjectivity and emotion the judge is burdened
with. The new technology, applied properly would make the
administration and work of putting on a contest much easier. How
we see and perceive the airplane would change to adapt to this new stuff
and we could fly accordingly. We would have to adapt the rules to
fit, of course, but it is doab le. I would love to see it. I
would love to know the truth about box violations, drifting, altitude
changes, whatever, etc.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I think it would be a game
changer and it would bring out the best/. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">That is just
me.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=yiv20637682msonormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>I have been out of
Precision Aerobatics for quite a while now. Even when I was an eager
enthusiast, I never developed the skills to be a successful
competitor.<BR>It was never about winning or losing for me. No one ever
enjoyed the game more than I.<BR><BR>Is the information provided by the
new equipment really a problem? If it is available to all is it
really a problem? <BR><BR>As I recall, there was a period where the TOC
permitted the use of gyros. I think the idea was to provide a better
show through the use of available technology. It did not take long for
the top contestants to abandon their use. In addition to reduced
reliability it was soon discovered that the best pilots preferred total
control to limited control. When the rule was made to outlaw the gyros,
no one cared because no one was using them anyway. The point: is
this new equipment really a problem?<BR><BR>If the telemetry provides a
higher degree of safety to person and/or property it is hard to justify
not allowing it. <BR><BR>An onboard device that limits operation
of the craft beyond the specified flight area could become a requirement
in the near future. Think about it!<BR><BR>I have always felt that a
constant speed controller for IC engines should be available to the fuel
burners. Current rules simply prohibit it....<BR><BR>Back to lurking
mode....<BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: #888888"><BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><PRE><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">-- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">John Ferrell W8CCW<o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">"The man who complains about the way the <o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE></DIV>
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