<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
I agree with Ed on this. Having your transmitter receive information
about the airplane is not a big deal but what you should be allowed
to do with that information will be a problem for anyone that tries
to rewrite the rules. It seems obvious that receiving an audible
signal for low battery is more a safety issue than any kind of
technical advantage. But what about a rising and falling tone for
deviating from your desired track at 175 meters out? How about a
tone for a wing down? Is this any different from having a good
caller that can give you the same info?<br>
Maybe yes, maybe no for competition but I sure would like to have a
system that would give me that info during practice.<br>
True closed loop autoflight systems can and still would have to be
done directly in the on-board electronics regardless of telemetry
due to latency considerations. Just having a basic system that would
neutralize yaw and roll attitudes unless a command was given would
not be extremely difficult to implement but clearly should be(and
is) banned. <br>
The examples given of a timed application and release of various
controls for a snap were for an open-loop system and would need the
airspeed, power, air density to be consistent to get consistent
results in the snap exit. Setting that up and keeping it setup was
probably more trouble than it was worth.<br>
<br>
Does anyone have an issue with an ESC regulating the RPM rather than
a percentage of full voltage from the throttle input? This is
another example of a closed loop control system like Ed's for the
servos and voltage regulators. It just isn't buried as deep in the
system and will probably have some objectors.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 11/21/2011 11:27 AM, Ed Alt wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:SNT138-W43D54038728BD429268B5EE8CB0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style>
<div dir="ltr">
Is it against the rules for your caller to mention that the
engine sounds lean? Can he tell you that it looks like you're
dropping a wing in the corners? What if he says you're drifting
out to 200 meters, or that you just about missed the pole on the
turnaround? All of these things are in-flight feedback, based
on audible or visual feedback from the model, that you, the
pilot may or may not have observed as keenly as your caller.
And you, as the pilot, may or may not act on this feedback,
which is different than an automated closed loop feedback
system. It's called free will. If your caller grabs the sticks
to fix any of these issues for you, it's another matter
entirely.<br>
<br>
So now there can be telemetry feedback. It is only a closed
loop feedback system if there is a mechanism in place to take
specific action on that feedback in a pre-determined fashion,
which results in having corrected some condition of flight with
the model. How a low voltage warning could count as closed loop
feedback is debatable, but I guess that if it's OK for a hearing
imparied pilot to be assisted by a caller to land when there's
an engine problem, then it ought to be OK for an audible beep or
a glance at a telemetry display to clue you in on what's
happening inside the model, before it becomes a safety problem.<br>
<br>
Just for perspective, your servos and voltage regulators are all
closed loop feedback systems. So is the pressure regulator on a
YS, if you are still running one. None of those closed loop
systems fly the model for you. They only serve to stabilize
that part of the system that you are in command of.<br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:12:15 -0800<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new
radio systems<br>
<br>
<meta content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name="Generator">
<style>
.ExternalClass pre
{;}
.ExternalClass tt
{;}
.ExternalClass span.ecxHTMLPREFORMATTEDCHAR
{;}
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoNormal
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormalIndent, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormalIndent, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoNormalIndent
{margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
.ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlink
{color:black;text-decoration:underline;text-underline:single;}
.ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:black;text-decoration:underline;text-underline:single;}
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoAutoSig, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoAutoSig, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoAutoSig
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
.ExternalClass pre
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";}
.ExternalClass tt
{;}
.ExternalClass p.ecxmsochpdefault, .ExternalClass li.ecxmsochpdefault, .ExternalClass div.ecxmsochpdefault
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
.ExternalClass span.ecxemailstyle17
{;}
.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle22
{color:#1F497D;}
.ExternalClass span.ecxHTMLPreformattedChar
{;}
.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle24
{color:#1F497D;}
.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle25
{color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;}
.ExternalClass div.ecxSection1
{page:Section1;}
</style>
<div class="ecxSection1">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span class="ecxEmailStyle25"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Closed
Loop" ?? Dose this include information displayed for
pilot and or caller to use during a competition
flight? Or only electronic? If the info is displayed
on the TX screen should it be blacked out during
flight? A beep for low voltage is obviously a good
thing but much more than that could be perceived as
unequal advantage. Personally I don't have the time
or processing ability to deal with it in real time.
Keeping track of what I'm trying to do is about all
I can manage.</span></font></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span class="ecxEmailStyle25"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</span></font></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span class="ecxEmailStyle25"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jay
Marshall<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, November 21, 2011 8:00 AM<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new
radio systems</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
12pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
Calibri">“Good” and “No Good” are not the issue. As
far as I am concerned, all information can be “Good”.
The issue is how it is used – no closed loop control.</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
Calibri"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Harlow Solid Italic" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
'Harlow Solid Italic'">Jay Marshall</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
Calibri"> </span></font></p>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none;
PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none;
PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none;
PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT:
0.5in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in;
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><b><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Tahoma">From:</span></font></b><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new
radio systems</span></font><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">So, who's gonna draft a replacement rule for
the old, antiquated one? Sounds to me like some types
of telemetry are not a bad thing (airborne
radio voltage, servo condition, are two OTOH). Other
types are no good (direction, rpm, voltage/current of
power supply, exhaust temp, etc)</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt;
MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MattK</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt;
MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Verne Koester <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com"><verne@twmi.rr.com></a><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2011 10:24 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule
& new radio systems</span></font></p>
<div
id="ecxAOLMsgPart_2_b4ca8795-b957-449c-a946-85f0432eff8d">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">They were removed in mine as well. That was
the last Futaba top tier radio that came with good
stiff springs.</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">Verne</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><b><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR:
black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><font
color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?"><font
color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a>]
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob
Richards<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, November 21, 2011 9:21 AM<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new
radio systems</span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> </span></font></p>
<table style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; WIDTH: 469.5pt"
border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="626">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
valign="top">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I
think we all know what the intent of the
rule is, but I think we all agree that the
rule needs to be modified to make that
clear.</span></font><font color="black"><span
style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">As for
a snap switch, it is not a "control
sequencing or control timing device" as it
does not initiate any kind of sequence or
start any kind of timing event, IMHO. Does
anyone remember the very first Futaba 8SGA
transmitters that DID have timers on the
snap switch function, such that when you
activated the switch it would deflect the
different control surfaces for a
predetermined amount of time (programmable).
In my transmitter, the adjustment pots for
that had been removed, presumably because of
the rules against such functions.</span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob R.</span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sat,
11/19/11, John Ford <i><span
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com"><font
color="blue"><span style="COLOR:
blue">astropattern@yahoo.com</span></font></a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color="black"><span
style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none;
PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none;
PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in;
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP:
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="BORDER-RIGHT:
medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP:
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM:
0pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in;
PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
COLOR: black"><br>
From: John Ford <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com"><font
color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">astropattern@yahoo.com</span></font></a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><font
color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 8:03 PM</span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="BORDER-RIGHT:
medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP:
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM:
0pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in;
PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
COLOR: black">I would speculate that the
term "feedback" means a closed control
loop where the telemetry data would
actually become pre-programed data input
to the TX software such that throttle,
rates, flight conditions, or mixes would
actually be modified by the software in
real time. That would certainly be a
game-changer! <br>
Just having open telemetry isn't an
advantage...it's probably a distraction,
unless you alarm on Rx battery voltage or
something like that. <br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:37 PM EST Peter
Vogel wrote:<br>
<br>
>Hmm.<br>
><br>
>So I'm looking at section 4.4 of the
AMA Competition regulations here:<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf</span></font></a><br>
><br>
>I see the following emphasis mine:<br>
><br>
>Radio control equipment shall be of
the open loop type<br>
>(i.e. *no electronic feedback from the
model to the *<br>
>*ground*)<br>
><br>
>It then goes on to provide examples of
what is/is not permitted:<br>
><br>
>Examples of control functions not
permitted:<br>
>8) Electronic or other signal or
feedback<br>
>from the model of *any kind.*<br>
><br>
>I believe the verbiage needs to be
changed to reflect the spirit and intent<br>
>of the rule, which is to prevent
telemetry data (i.e. heading, airspeed,<br>
>etc.) that would provide an advantage
in precision to the pilot flying with<br>
>said equipment. Basic telemetry data
such as the state of charge for the<br>
>reciever and main system batteries (in
the case of an electric) model<br>
>and/or engine/motor temperature, RPM,
etc. provide no such advantage and<br>
>should be permitted as it enhances
flight safety and provides some<br>
>protection for the airframes
themselves.<br>
><br>
>Rex, says that "it goes on to say that
the rule is to prevent<br>
>pre-programmed control of the aircraft
such as timed snaps" but I believe<br>
>those are distinct sentences, the RC
equipment must be open loop with no<br>
>feedback from the model to the
ground. Period, full stop. Then it goes
on<br>
>with additional requirements distinct
from the RC TX/RX: Autopilots are<br>
>prohibited (i.e. devices such as the
UAVDev board or Ardupilot or the new<br>
>AS3X from Horizon would be prohibited,
even though they are not closed-loop<br>
>control systems. Further, automatic
control sequencing or control timing<br>
>devices (which I have always read as
preventing the use of snap button<br>
>functions on modern computer
transmitters) are prohibited. I've
wondered<br>
>how that last one is enforced given
virtually every computer radio today<br>
>has the ability to assign a snap of
any form to any switch or button on the<br>
>transmitter and it would be difficult
to check that snap functions are<br>
>inhibited in every contestent's TX. I
have assumed the honor system<br>
>applies. I would expect the same
honor system, with, perhaps, a check of<br>
>winning pilot's telemetry systems in
high-stakes events would be sufficient<br>
>to relax the telemetry rule to allow
basic telemetry systems such as the<br>
>Hitec, Graupner + Spektrum systems to
be permitted.<br>
><br>
>Peter+<br>
><br>
>On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 2:35 PM,
Richard Lewis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=humptybump%40sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">humptybump@sbcglobal.net</span></font></a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The rule likely needs an update
to verbage that is consistent with current<br>
>> technology, but as long as there
is no closed loop on any of the telemetry<br>
>> it is well within the "spirit" of
the rule to use/allow these systems in<br>
>> pattern...<br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> *From:* Peter Vogel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vogel.peter%40gmail.com"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">vogel.peter@gmail.com</span></font></a>><br>
>> *To:* "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
>> ><br>
>> *Sent:* Fri, November 18, 2011
4:20:02 PM<br>
>><br>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems<br>
>><br>
>> I was just reading RCM&E (one
of my favorite magazines) and noticed that<br>
>> the latest systems from Graupner
and Hitec have telemetry built-in to all<br>
>> RX's, I suspect the others aren't
far behind. With the current rule<br>
>> against any form of downlink from
the aircraft, it seems the newer systems<br>
>> will be out of reach to those
competing in pattern aerobatics. I'm just
in<br>
>> sportsman, any thought to
relaxing the rule to restricting telemetry
that<br>
>> might actually be an advantage in
competition as opposed to things that can<br>
>> save an airframe like battery
voltage data?<br>
>><br>
>> Peter+<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone4S<br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></a><br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>-- <br>
>Did you know? Arthritis affects people
in all age groups including nearly<br>
>300,000 children.<br>
>Please help me ride 525 miles down the
California coast to support<br>
>Arthritis Research<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://2011cccnca.kintera.org/pvogel"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">http://2011cccnca.kintera.org/pvogel</span></font></a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span
style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></a></span></font><font
color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<pre style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">
</span></font></tt><div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_3_b4ca8795-b957-449c-a946-85f0432eff8d"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2">_______________________________________________</font></tt></div></pre>
<pre style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></tt></pre>
<pre style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><font color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a></span></font></tt></pre>
<pre style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank"><font color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></a></span></font></tt></pre>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion
mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>