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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Yes, a
blind and deaf person would definitely be at a disadvantage. Most of the time I
can't hear my airplane at the club field and I don't see as well as I once did
but I don't consider this an unfair disadvantage. This is still a skill based
activity and no amount of technology short of a fully autonomous programmed UAV
will totally replace it, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I will
continue to monitor this discussion but will refrain from further comment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>By<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Hoard<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 21, 2011
9:16 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If it was truly "closed loop"
then you should be wearing a blindfold and have earplugs inserted. . . <br
clear=all>
<br>
Keith Hoard<br>
Collierville, TN<br>
<a href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Mon, Nov
21, 2011 at 11:12 AM, J N Hiller <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<div link="black" vlink="black">"Closed Loop" ?? Dose this include
information displayed for pilot and or caller to use during a competition
flight? Or only electronic? If the info is displayed on the TX screen should it
be blacked out during flight? A beep for low voltage is obviously a good thing
but much more than that could be perceived as unequal advantage. Personally I
don't have the time or processing ability to deal with it in real time. Keeping
track of what I'm trying to do is about all I can manage.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jay Marshall<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 21, 2011
8:00 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>“</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Good</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>”</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>
and </span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>“</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>No Good</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>”</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>
are not the issue. As far as I am concerned, all information can be </span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>“</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Good</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>”</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>.
The issue is how it is used </span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>–</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>
no closed loop control.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Harlow Solid Italic"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Harlow Solid Italic";
color:#1F497D'>Jay Marshall</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><a
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com" target="_blank">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 21, 2011
10:44 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>So,
who's gonna draft a replacement rule for the old, antiquated one? Sounds to me
like some types of telemetry are not a bad thing (airborne radio voltage,
servo condition, are two OTOH). Other types are no good (direction, rpm,
voltage/current of power supply, exhaust temp, etc)</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MattK</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Verne Koester <<a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com" target="_blank">verne@twmi.rr.com</a>><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2011 10:24 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new radio systems</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>They
were removed in mine as well. That was the last Futaba top tier radio that came
with good stiff springs.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Verne</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Richards<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 21, 2011
9:21 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No
telemetry rule & new radio systems</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=626 style='width:469.5pt;
mso-cellspacing:0in;margin-left:76.8pt;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'>I think we all know what the
intent of the rule is, but I think we all agree that the rule needs to be
modified to make that clear.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'>As for a snap switch, it is not a
"control sequencing or control timing device" as it does not
initiate any kind of sequence or start any kind of timing event, IMHO. Does
anyone remember the very first Futaba 8SGA transmitters that DID have timers
on the snap switch function, such that when you activated the switch it would
deflect the different control surfaces for a predetermined amount of time
(programmable). In my transmitter, the adjustment pots for that had been removed,
presumably because of the rules against such functions.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'>Bob R.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sat, 11/19/11, John Ford <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">astropattern@yahoo.com</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.75pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><br>
From: John Ford <<a href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com" target="_blank">astropattern@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new radio systems<br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 8:03 PM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.75pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'>I would
speculate that the term "feedback" means a closed control loop
where the telemetry data would actually become pre-programed data input to
the TX software such that throttle, rates, flight conditions, or mixes would
actually be modified by the software in real time. That would certainly be a
game-changer! <br>
Just having open telemetry isn't an advantage...it's probably a distraction,
unless you alarm on Rx battery voltage or something like that. <br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:37 PM EST Peter Vogel wrote:<br>
<br>
>Hmm.<br>
><br>
>So I'm looking at section 4.4 of the AMA Competition regulations here:<br>
><a href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf</a><br>
><br>
>I see the following emphasis mine:<br>
><br>
>Radio control equipment shall be of the open loop type<br>
>(i.e. *no electronic feedback from the model to the *<br>
>*ground*)<br>
><br>
>It then goes on to provide examples of what is/is not permitted:<br>
><br>
>Examples of control functions not permitted:<br>
>8) Electronic or other signal or feedback<br>
>from the model of *any kind.*<br>
><br>
>I believe the verbiage needs to be changed to reflect the spirit and
intent<br>
>of the rule, which is to prevent telemetry data (i.e. heading, airspeed,<br>
>etc.) that would provide an advantage in precision to the pilot flying
with<br>
>said equipment. Basic telemetry data such as the state of charge
for the<br>
>reciever and main system batteries (in the case of an electric) model<br>
>and/or engine/motor temperature, RPM, etc. provide no such advantage and<br>
>should be permitted as it enhances flight safety and provides some<br>
>protection for the airframes themselves.<br>
><br>
>Rex, says that "it goes on to say that the rule is to prevent<br>
>pre-programmed control of the aircraft such as timed snaps" but I
believe<br>
>those are distinct sentences, the RC equipment must be open loop with no<br>
>feedback from the model to the ground. Period, full stop.
Then it goes on<br>
>with additional requirements distinct from the RC TX/RX: Autopilots are<br>
>prohibited (i.e. devices such as the UAVDev board or Ardupilot or the new<br>
>AS3X from Horizon would be prohibited, even though they are not
closed-loop<br>
>control systems. Further, automatic control sequencing or control
timing<br>
>devices (which I have always read as preventing the use of snap button<br>
>functions on modern computer transmitters) are prohibited. I've
wondered<br>
>how that last one is enforced given virtually every computer radio today<br>
>has the ability to assign a snap of any form to any switch or button on
the<br>
>transmitter and it would be difficult to check that snap functions are<br>
>inhibited in every contestent's TX. I have assumed the honor system<br>
>applies. I would expect the same honor system, with, perhaps, a
check of<br>
>winning pilot's telemetry systems in high-stakes events would be
sufficient<br>
>to relax the telemetry rule to allow basic telemetry systems such as the<br>
>Hitec, Graupner + Spektrum systems to be permitted.<br>
><br>
>Peter+<br>
><br>
>On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Richard Lewis <<a
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=humptybump@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank">humptybump@sbcglobal.net</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The rule likely needs an update to verbage that is consistent with
current<br>
>> technology, but as long as there is no closed loop on any of the
telemetry<br>
>> it is well within the "spirit" of the rule to use/allow
these systems in<br>
>> pattern...<br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> *From:* Peter Vogel <<a
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vogel.peter@gmail.com"
target="_blank">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> *To:* "<a
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>" <<a
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> *Sent:* Fri, November 18, 2011 4:20:02 PM<br>
>><br>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule & new radio
systems<br>
>><br>
>> I was just reading RCM&E (one of my favorite magazines) and
noticed that<br>
>> the latest systems from Graupner and Hitec have telemetry built-in
to all<br>
>> RX's, I suspect the others aren't far behind. With the current
rule<br>
>> against any form of downlink from the aircraft, it seems the newer
systems<br>
>> will be out of reach to those competing in pattern aerobatics.
I'm just in<br>
>> sportsman, any thought to relaxing the rule to restricting telemetry
that<br>
>> might actually be an advantage in competition as opposed to things
that can<br>
>> save an airframe like battery voltage data?<br>
>><br>
>> Peter+<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone4S<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> <a
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>-- <br>
>Did you know? Arthritis affects people in all age groups including nearly<br>
>300,000 children.<br>
>Please help me ride 525 miles down the California coast to support<br>
>Arthritis Research<br>
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