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Still have one of those :)<br>
<br>
On 11/21/2011 9:20 AM, Bob Richards wrote:
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<div>I think we all know what the intent of the rule is,
but I think we all agree that the rule needs to be
modified to make that clear.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As for a snap switch, it is not a "control sequencing
or control timing device" as it does not initiate any
kind of sequence or start any kind of timing event,
IMHO. Does anyone remember the very first Futaba 8SGA
transmitters that DID have timers on the snap switch
function, such that when you activated the switch it
would deflect the different control surfaces for a
predetermined amount of time (programmable). In my
transmitter, the adjustment pots for that had been
removed, presumably because of the rules against such
functions.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bob R.</div>
<div><br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sat, 11/19/11, John Ford <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com"><astropattern@yahoo.com></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
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From: John Ford <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:astropattern@yahoo.com"><astropattern@yahoo.com></a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry rule &
new radio systems<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 8:03 PM<br>
<br>
<div class="plainMail">I would speculate that the term
"feedback" means a closed control loop where the
telemetry data would actually become pre-programed
data input to the TX software such that throttle,
rates, flight conditions, or mixes would actually be
modified by the software in real time. That would
certainly be a game-changer! <br>
Just having open telemetry isn't an advantage...it's
probably a distraction, unless you alarm on Rx battery
voltage or something like that. <br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:37 PM EST Peter Vogel wrote:<br>
<br>
>Hmm.<br>
><br>
>So I'm looking at section 4.4 of the AMA
Competition regulations here:<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCAerobatics1.pdf</a><br>
><br>
>I see the following emphasis mine:<br>
><br>
>Radio control equipment shall be of the open loop
type<br>
>(i.e. *no electronic feedback from the model to
the *<br>
>*ground*)<br>
><br>
>It then goes on to provide examples of what is/is
not permitted:<br>
><br>
>Examples of control functions not permitted:<br>
>8) Electronic or other signal or feedback<br>
>from the model of *any kind.*<br>
><br>
>I believe the verbiage needs to be changed to
reflect the spirit and intent<br>
>of the rule, which is to prevent telemetry data
(i.e. heading, airspeed,<br>
>etc.) that would provide an advantage in precision
to the pilot flying with<br>
>said equipment. Basic telemetry data such as the
state of charge for the<br>
>reciever and main system batteries (in the case of
an electric) model<br>
>and/or engine/motor temperature, RPM, etc. provide
no such advantage and<br>
>should be permitted as it enhances flight safety
and provides some<br>
>protection for the airframes themselves.<br>
><br>
>Rex, says that "it goes on to say that the rule is
to prevent<br>
>pre-programmed control of the aircraft such as
timed snaps" but I believe<br>
>those are distinct sentences, the RC equipment
must be open loop with no<br>
>feedback from the model to the ground. Period,
full stop. Then it goes on<br>
>with additional requirements distinct from the RC
TX/RX: Autopilots are<br>
>prohibited (i.e. devices such as the UAVDev board
or Ardupilot or the new<br>
>AS3X from Horizon would be prohibited, even though
they are not closed-loop<br>
>control systems. Further, automatic control
sequencing or control timing<br>
>devices (which I have always read as preventing
the use of snap button<br>
>functions on modern computer transmitters) are
prohibited. I've wondered<br>
>how that last one is enforced given virtually
every computer radio today<br>
>has the ability to assign a snap of any form to
any switch or button on the<br>
>transmitter and it would be difficult to check
that snap functions are<br>
>inhibited in every contestent's TX. I have
assumed the honor system<br>
>applies. I would expect the same honor system,
with, perhaps, a check of<br>
>winning pilot's telemetry systems in high-stakes
events would be sufficient<br>
>to relax the telemetry rule to allow basic
telemetry systems such as the<br>
>Hitec, Graupner + Spektrum systems to be
permitted.<br>
><br>
>Peter+<br>
><br>
>On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Richard Lewis
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=humptybump@sbcglobal.net"
ymailto="mailto:humptybump@sbcglobal.net">humptybump@sbcglobal.net</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The rule likely needs an update to verbage
that is consistent with current<br>
>> technology, but as long as there is no closed
loop on any of the telemetry<br>
>> it is well within the "spirit" of the rule to
use/allow these systems in<br>
>> pattern...<br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> *From:* Peter Vogel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vogel.peter@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> *To:* "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> *Sent:* Fri, November 18, 2011 4:20:02 PM<br>
>><br>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] No telemetry
rule & new radio systems<br>
>><br>
>> I was just reading RCM&E (one of my
favorite magazines) and noticed that<br>
>> the latest systems from Graupner and Hitec
have telemetry built-in to all<br>
>> RX's, I suspect the others aren't far
behind. With the current rule<br>
>> against any form of downlink from the
aircraft, it seems the newer systems<br>
>> will be out of reach to those competing in
pattern aerobatics. I'm just in<br>
>> sportsman, any thought to relaxing the rule
to restricting telemetry that<br>
>> might actually be an advantage in competition
as opposed to things that can<br>
>> save an airframe like battery voltage data?<br>
>><br>
>> Peter+<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone4S<br>
>>
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href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
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>>
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>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>-- <br>
>Did you know? Arthritis affects people in all age
groups including nearly<br>
>300,000 children.<br>
>Please help me ride 525 miles down the California
coast to support<br>
>Arthritis Research<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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