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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>After reading it all, I am just gjoing to use a slow cure laminating resin to install the battery hold down and landing gear plate. The plate will get glass ribbon.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just a great post. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm sorry, I meant to say 100C not 100F. Didn't mean to mislead<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>100C is of course the BP of water, which is what it feels like in your neck of the woods sometimes, on contest day. Nevertheless, your caution is well founded. For something critical like battery hold down, I wouldn't use 5min. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>And I know what you mean about launching a 2 1/2 lb battery through the canopy. I don't fly electrics yet but I've seen that happen to guys up here. Ouch!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>BTW-speaking of hold down for batteries, a single 1/4-20 nylon bolt will take 100 lb of load (at room temp) before deforming significantly. At 100F that load is reduced by 30%, but break strength remains quite high. Just an idea for a hold down method <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Michael S. Harrison <drmikedds@sbcglobal.net><br>To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 1:24 pm<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_9277046e-f891-4bab-bbba-7ea3a2d29991"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Matt,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>This is the critidcal info I needed. 100 ‘ deformation is a real concern since batteries,etc go to well over 100’, sometimes in the order of 140’. Even sitting in the sun will go to 120 or more. I believe the double layer, 5min/laminating will work. It will be stronger and redundant.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Deformation temp of 5 minute is usually very low, on order of 100F. I no longer use 5 minute for anything load bearing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>You are correct on sunlight degradation for the amine cured epoxies (most of the stuff we use) but the process is fairly slow. Usually don't have to worry about that as RVP pointed out, unless you are like me and keep your planes for 8-10 years plus<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>For much better sunlight protection there are other curing systems (J Greer) available but these are slow curing and could be counteproductive for your purposes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>MattK<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Michael S. Harrison <<a href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>To: 'General pattern discussion' <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:52 am<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_5e8d052c-ac60-433a-92bb-0851852e2a4c"><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks Ted and others. This is all helpful, my concern is what I have witnessed over many years as the heat and fuel ruined the 5 min epoxy. Since it is electric, fuel is not an issue but there is plenty of concern about heat. I don’t know the deformation temp of the epoxy nor the exposure to normal environment so that is why I was asking. I am going with the 5 min and doing a thin coating of laminating to have a seal and redundancy. Sunlight will eventually ruin the epoxies but since it is inside the fuse, that is not an issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Sander<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I tend to use whatever the local shop carries – but do lean toward Z-poxy. The current Pres. Of our local club spent his career formulating adhesives, so I trust his opinions, and in his view all hobby marketed expoxies are far stronger and longer lasting than we ever need, so go with price. That said, longer curing is stronger than shorter curing (but once you are good enough, do you really need it stronger?) and using laminating is better than thinning with alcohol, acetone, or whatever if you need to coat an area…..(thinning does dramatically reduce strength).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If you are getting into whole plane fabrication with epoxies (glass/composite construction, etc.) then you need to do some more research for thin film strengths, viscosity, etc. , especially since weight becomes a big factor. But for general gluing of firewalls, wing halves, or the like – go with what you can easily get/afford.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ted what was the brand you used?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Sander<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 1:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>You'd just be adding weight. I have 20 yr old planes where the 5 min is still perfect. Enough heat to be a problem with the epoxy will be a much bigger problem for everything else in the plane!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ted Sander<br><br>On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:57 AM, "Michael S. Harrison" <<a href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks Dwane,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Sorry, I was very ambiguous in my search for answers. I am referring to the cured state. I am using it for construction and I have decided to coat the cured 5 min epoxy with a high quality laminating epoxy to seal/insulate it from solvents, air, etc so that it is preserved-don’t know that it will work but gonna do it that way.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dwayne Brown<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 12, 2011 11:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Keep it in the freezer until needed and it will outlive all of us on the NSRCA group. Dwayne<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Tech question.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>What is the lifespan quality of 5 min epoxy. How long does it last? I am using in an electric for construction and I am concerned about degradation over time. How does the heat affect it? I am building to ca models fuse. What is your choice of adhesive in this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div id="AOLMsgPart_3_5e8d052c-ac60-433a-92bb-0851852e2a4c"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div><div id="AOLMsgPart_3_9277046e-f891-4bab-bbba-7ea3a2d29991"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div></div></div></body></html>