<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><SPAN>The AMA rule that Dave L. mention below states two cases: Spin and Stall Turns. I will agree that the description of stall turn should include the drift description as is described in the spins and FAI. <BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR></SPAN><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Stuart Chale" <schale@optonline.net><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:58:16 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A question for the experts<BR><BR>I think the only place where drift is allowed is right at the stall <BR>turn. while the plane is moving up or down the course needs to be wind <BR>corrected. It would take a pretty good wind to significantly blow the <BR>plane out while stalling unless you were in a hover first :)<BR><BR>On 5/27/2011 11:11 AM, Dave Lockhart wrote:<BR>> Matt,<BR>><BR>> If you are judging by the rules, your answer must be different for FAI -<BR>><BR>> 5B.8 WIND CORRECTION<BR>> All manoeuvres are required to be wind corrected in such a way that the<BR>> shape of the maneouvre as described in Annex 5A. is preserved in the model<BR>> aircraft's flight. The exceptions to this grading criterion are in the<BR>> stall turns, and spins, where the model is in a stalled condition.<BR>><BR>> My opinion is that the AMA book should be updated to be consistent with the<BR>> FAI book on this topic, and the FAI book is clearly better suited to the<BR>> real world dynamics of stall turns in windy conditions.<BR>><BR>> To answer Don's original question -<BR>> For AMA, by the book, - the maneuver is downgraded for drift.<BR>> For FAI, by the book, - the maneuver is not downgraded for drift.<BR>><BR>> Regards,<BR>><BR>> Dave Lockhart<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of<BR>> mjfrederick@cox.net<BR>> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 8:53 AM<BR>> To: General pattern discussion<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A question for the experts<BR>><BR>> I'm not sure where the notion came from that wind drift during a stall turn<BR>> is not downgraded. In AMA judging criteria the only maneuver that<BR>> specifically mentions that no downgrade is given for wind drift is the spin,<BR>> and that is only DURING the stalled portion of the maneuver. In a "stall"<BR>> turn there is no true stall of the wing as there is in a spin. If flown with<BR>> the proper wind corrections on the up- and down-lines there should be no<BR>> noticable deviation in distance. If there is, the maneuver should be<BR>> downgraded because the pilot failed to make the proper wind correction. Even<BR>> if there was a slight drift during the 180 turn at the apex of the lines,<BR>> the pilot should recognize that and incorporate the proper adjustment to the<BR>> downline to bring the aircraft back to the original starting distance. To<BR>> me, it's no different than turbulence that might cause the aircraft to<BR>> temporarily deviate from straight and level flight. Adjustments must be made<BR>> to return the airplane to th e original line. I don't feel like pulling up<BR>> the FAI rule book, so I just won't go there, but I'm not sure if my answer<BR>> would be any different.<BR>><BR>> Matt<BR>><BR>><BR>> ---- tocdon@netscape.net wrote:<BR>><BR>> A question for the judging experts.<BR>><BR>> Figure M, both Masters and FAI- Yes I know the bottom line rule the best<BR>> presentation gets the best score, but a technical question.<BR>><BR>> Maneuver flow in a crosswind. Plane starts maneuver at 140 meters distance<BR>> out. During the first stall turn the plane drifts out (recall this is a<BR>> stalled maneuver); second stall turn the plane drifts out again (same). Now<BR>> the plane wind corrects in all other aspects of the maneuver but exits<BR>> approximately 20 meters further out than the entry and no defects observed,<BR>> but exit distance is 160 meters. What is the score given for this maneuver?<BR>><BR>> Best Regards,<BR>><BR>> Don<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>><BR>><BR>> -----<BR>> No virus found in this message.<BR>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>> Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3663 - Release Date: 05/27/11<BR>><BR>><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR></div></body></html>