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I haven't seen a response to Bill's question, so here goes:<div><br></div><div>For every F3A World Championships, the NSRCA recommends to AMA the top five NSRCA-ranked judges. The AMA forwards the list to the FAI. The organizing committee for the F3A WC gets the list passed to them, from which the U.S. judge is selected. The list of ranked judges used to be the top three, but one judge, who AMA president at the time, Dave Brown, wanted to be selected was in fifth place in the NSRCA rankings, so Brown wrangled with FAI officials to allow submittal of the top five judges and for them to pick the fifth place judge. Since then the top five NSRCA-ranked judges have been submitted to AMA. </div><div><br></div><div>Only the guilty need feel offended by this submittal.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron Van Putte </div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 5, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Bill Glaze wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Question: Just what gets done with it? (The list) What is the effect to be? How will it affect the (any) outcome?</font></div> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="rcmaster199@aol.com" href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:26 AM</div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2010 F3A and Masters Finals</div> <div><br></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font color="black" face="arial">Mark and all,</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Judge Ranking program doesn't account for one judge seeing a 10 and another seeing a zero. From the judge's perspective, each is right. The calculations respect each judge's score equally. </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One "low" judge can sometimes be on the same panel as 4 "high" judges<span style="DISPLAY: inline-block" contenteditable="false"></span> and vice versa. Who is right? That situation will skew the data and all judges will be ranked lower than if a panel was more consistent. </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Any of the rankings I've posted, judges are ranked respective to their peers on any given panel, because the whole panel was used to place the pilots for any round, officially. Judge Rank doesn't get to pick and choose; it plays no favorites.</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">As RVP, Tony, Don and I have said over the years, this program was never cast in stone. If there is a better way, maybe we can improve the program.</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">MattK</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Mark Hunt <<a href="mailto:flyintexan@att.net">flyintexan@att.net</a>><br>To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Mon, Oct 4, 2010 10:33 pm<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2010 F3A and Masters Finals<br><br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_3_ecb30490-8d96-4608-9e3e-be6e3bdbd41a"> <div class="aolReplacedBody" bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">yes. Nice work. my only beef with judge ranking is..what if the minority is getting it right?......how many of the majority really downgrade for distance?..;)</font></div> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="rcmaster199@aol.com" href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 04, 2010 22:15</div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2010 F3A and Masters Finals</div> <div><br></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font color="black" face="arial"></font><span style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></span>Hey,</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Did this get through the frst time??</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>Sent: Mon, Oct 4, 2010 2:57 pm<br>Subject: Judge Rank, 2010 F3A and Masters Finals<br><br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_e479ab60-be05-4bba-8d88-c7ed2ea1b845"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Just finished the calculations from 2010 for both F3A and Masters Finals. Now I need to edit the website to bring everything to date:</span></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></span> </div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><strong><font size="3">F3A, 2 rounds flown; F11 plus unknown</font></strong></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dale Arnold Rd 1= 927.2------rd2 = 883.8</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Mark Radcliff Rd1= 870.2------rd2 = 879.5</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Derek Koopowitz Rd 1= 869</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Mike Harrison Rd1= 825.6</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Rusty Dose Rd 1 =806.7</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Mark Atwood Rd 2=914.2</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Bill Ahrens Rd2=837.1</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma">Tom Miller Rd2=890.1</font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><strong>Masters, 3 rounds flown:</strong></font></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Don Ramsey Rd 1= 911.1-----------Rd 2= 873.6</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tony Romano Rd 1= 904.5-----------Rd 2=899.1</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ed Alt Rd 1= 893.1-----------Rd 2=811.0</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Carlos Barrera Rd 1= 838.9-----------Rd 2=809.7</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Joe Dunnaway Rd 1= 792.2-----------Rd 2=748.7</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><strong><font size="3">Round 3</font></strong></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Rick Wallace Rd 3 = 861.9</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">RVP Rd 3 = 782.2</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Gary Courtney Rd 3 = 770.7</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">John Fuqua Rd 3 = 753.7</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Christopher Moon Rd 3 = 717.8</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When we first started to do these calculations some 7 years ago, the judges were hard pressed to get an average score in the 900s. But now we have had several do that and a couple more than once. </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We've actually had a few judges score the Placement part of the calculation,1000 points, which means they placed every pilot in the correct order per the official score. It has also become clear that certain judges consistently score the Scoring part of the calculation in the 900's which means they are closer to the average score than the other judges. Both of these feats are hard to do consistenctly since the judging panels change as much as they do</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kudos to all for your consistency and dilligence</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">MattK</div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>On Sep 22, 2010, at 10:26 PM, <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> wrote: <br> <br>> Judge Rankings from the F3A Finals in 2009. Will be calculating the > 2010 and posting soon <br>> <br>> <br>> Rounds 1 and 2 <br>> <br>> JFuqua 744.9 805.0 <br>> BKane 853.8 786.1 <br>> DRamsey 853.0 871.2 <br>> RWallace 818.9 845.3 <br>> CBarrera 799.6 885.2 <br>> <br>> <br>> Rounds 3 and 4 <br>> <br>> DArnold 981.2 889.6 <br>> MAtwood 870.8 895.2 <br>> ABouchard 848.9 826.2 <br>> EHaury 912.8 906.7 <br>> KVelez 904.5 983.2 <br>> <br>> Regards <br>> <br>> MattK <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message----- <br>> From: <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> <br>> To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br>> Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:45 pm <br>> Subject: Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final <br>> <br>> Judge Rankings from 2009 Masters Final. Belated information for > inquiring minds; This will be on the NSRCA website at some point, > as I complete the assessment: <br>> <br>> Judge: Scores <br>> R Lewis 879.0 875.2 <br>> G Miller 824.3 804.2 <br>> J Lowe 720.8 861.4 <br>> T Romano 778.9 946.0 <br>> M Hunt 757.1 769.8 <br>> B Clemmons 903.8 785.1 <br>> J Dunnaway 783.7 816.8 <br>> J Lechowski 787.3 843.1 <br>> RVP 877.2 781.3 <br>> T Terrenoiser 884.6 866.9 <br>> <br>> Note: First 5 judges judged rounds 1 and 2; the last 5, rounds 3 and 4 <br>> <br>> Regards, <br>> <br>> MattK <br>> <br>> = <br>> _______________________________________________ <br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> <br> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_961b7c7d-76f4-4901-b2dd-568a7315292a"> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id="AOLMsgPart_4_94b92f43-1f8e-490f-b805-142c6ec37513"><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><tt>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </tt></pre></div></div></span></div> <div> <hr> <div></div>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div></blockquote></div> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id="AOLMsgPart_4_ecb30490-8d96-4608-9e3e-be6e3bdbd41a"><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><tt>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </tt></pre></div></div><div> <br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>