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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Arch, where in the Process Document does it
disallow it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=astafford@md.metrocast.net
href="mailto:astafford@md.metrocast.net">Archie Stafford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed
NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The 4pt is exactly the type of maneuver Dave is referring to. I know
becausehe and I have both pushed for that. I dont think we need some of the
really crazy stuff, but we need to start adding some. I dont think we need
them at the bottom of loops, but the current doctrine the sequence committee
has to follow will notallow a loop with a 4pt at the top. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Arch <BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Sep 23, 2010, at 6:46 PM, "Dave Harmon" <<A
href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">An
avalanche or 4 pt roll in a loop is not an <I>‘FAI or IMAC style’</I>
integrated maneuver.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Dave
Harmon<O:P></O:P></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">NSRCA
586<O:P></O:P></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net<O:P></O:P></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Sperry,
Ok.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></B></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Archie
Stafford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Why not? An avalanche is an integrated maneuver. A
4pt roll at the top of a loop is certainly in the skill set of a masters
pilot. <O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Arch<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On Sep 23, 2010, at 3:38
PM, "Dave Harmon" <<A href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net"><A
href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</A></A>>
wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
agree with Dave l but otherwise I disagree totally…..FAI and IMAC
style integrated maneuvers don’t belong in Masters.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Dave
Harmon</SPAN></B><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">NSRCA
586</SPAN></B><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net</SPAN></B><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Sperry,
Ok.</SPAN></B><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dr
Mike<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:58 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
totally agree with you, Dave, however, I would encourage the Masters
sequence to begin including some integrated, safe stuff, such as a loop
with roll at top or some such thing. It just simply makes the
event so much more fun and exciting.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike
</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dave<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:13
AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">John,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
only bit of your discussion I differ on is regarding the difficulty level
for the “destination” class Masters. It is only a destination for
some, and regardless of whether or not it is a destination class (in
practice, name, or design), the difficulty level should be set based on
the wishes of the majority – not the difficulty level of FAI. We
(AMA pattern pilots) can always choose to set the difficulty level of
Masters slightly less than, equal to, or slightly greater than FAI.
But since we (AMA pattern pilots) have pretty much zero input or
influence on FAI, we should never tie ourselves to the FAI schedule
allowing it to dictate the difficulty level of Masters. Masters and
FAI do not share the share goal, and never will.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Advancement
systems aside, someone will be moving up or down for whatever reason(s),
and I’m happy to partake in the celebrating or commiserating
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">J</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave
Lockhart</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John
Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:29 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Dave,<BR><BR>Every time you move to a new class including
sportsman there are potential airplane killers lurking. Long ago and far
away, I remember losing two airplanes learning to do three consecutive
rolls centered. If combined roll/loop maneuvers were introduced to
Masters, the Masters pilots would quickly sort out how to execute
them. My only point in addressing the lack of these maneuvers in
Masters is the fact that it is the final AMA destination class and as such
should deliver equivalent difficulty to F3A. Otherwise it is a feeder
class without Advancement requirements.<BR><BR>In other countries where
advancement to the next class has to be earned (by scoring average and the
national organization keeps track), getting an advancement notice is cause
for celebration and usually involves lots of beer. In Australia everyone
aspires to gain admittance into the top level (which flies the F3A
schedules and from which their World team is selected). The flip
side is that if you start flying poorly or not at all, you find yourself
moving back a class or two.<BR><BR>Such a system has a lot of merit. Keep
flying well against your peers, you move up. Fly poorly, you move down.
The beer sounds good too. Celebrate on the way up, commiserate on the way
down, drinks all around in either case.<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>On 9/22/2010
6:28 PM, Dave wrote: <O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">John,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">First,
without picking a side on this particular debate, I’d offer the following
comments / perspectives –</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-
Historically, surveys and polls have answered that integrated
looping/rolling maneuvers should not be included in the Masters
pattern.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-
an “airplane killer” looks a lot differently to a skilled Masters pilot
compared to a middle of the pack advanced pilot moving into Masters, and
this concern has historically been expressed, and is a hot button for a
substantial number.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Second,
my opinions -</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
fly FAI because I want to…I want the more challenging schedules and higher
level of competition. Arguably, the FAI P schedule is not more
difficult in some years, and I could easily argue it does not contain
state of the art maneuvers, but flying FAI is still more difficult if for
no other reason than a pilots time must be split between flying P, F, and
unknowns.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Masters
has a wide range of pilot abilities, and is “home” for many for different
reasons. As such, it will always be a compromise class, unlike FAI
F3A which is focused on picking the best F3A Team in the world and the
best individual pilot in the world. So long as the majority of
Masters do not want state of the art maneuvers, Masters should not have
state of the art maneuvers.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
do believe it might be a little easier to establish and maintain the
difficulty level of each class and the steps between the classes IF a
system were established that required a pilot advance to the next higher
class based on achieving a given proficiency, and also demoted a pilot who
did not achieve a minimum standard. Several countries use this
approach, and from what I have seen, it appears to work as well or better
than the point system used in the US. Mandatory advancement to F3A
is a separate, but related topic.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave
Lockhart</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net"><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></A></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
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<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 6:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion; Mark
Hunt<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences
for 2011 and beyond</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro , serif','serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro , serif','serif'">Derek,<BR><BR>I
thought we already selected a pattern through the survey. Is the survey
now meaningless because it chose the wrong length pattern?<BR><BR>I'm not
quite sure I understand the logic behind raising the complexity of the
short pattern at this late date, either. The sequence committee has
worked on these patterns for two years or so and now it appears that
because of a few comments at the Nats or whatever that all that work and
the surveys are to be thrown out or at least revisited.<BR>I offered
comments on the patterns 6 months ago and and said at that time that the
Masters pattern was too easy in some areas. Didn't see anyone jumping to
and making changes then. <BR>Comments about airplane killer maneuvers are
also uncalled for. Any Masters pilot should be able to perform integrated
roll/loop maneuvers without endangering the airplane. Making them good
enough to score 8s and 9s, well that's a different matter. If you
are making changes to the Masters pattern and keeping its role as a
destination class, I firmly believe it should contain <U>state of the
art</U> pattern maneuvers.<BR><BR>John Gayer<BR>District 6 Advanced
pilot<BR><BR><BR>On 9/22/2010 4:10 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro , serif','serif'">Dave,
</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New , serif','serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New , serif','serif'">You
are correct in that everyone is impacted on a short vs long schedule - my
apologies for the definition of who is impacted. Regardless, please
voice your opinion to your District VP.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New , serif','serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>-Derek<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times Ne , serif','serif'">On
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave Burton <<A
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"><A
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A></A>>
wrote:</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Derek,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I really
object to your definition of who has “Skin in the game” - <B>We all
do if we pay our dues and attend contest</B>.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The “skin”
is the impact of a long vs. short sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer
who will be flying Masters in the next two years, every flyer/non flyer
who judges at a contest, and every other flyer in all the other class who
have to wait until the typically large Masters class finishes whatever
sequence they fly.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So, whether
I fly Masters in the next two years or not, I intend to let my opinion be
known to my district VP and I expect him to give my view the same weight
of any other opinion from “Masters” flyers or others.
</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This is an
issue that should not be decided by only “Masters”
flyers.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave
Burton</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>
[mailto:<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A></A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Derek Koopowitz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September
22, 2010 5:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <SPAN style="COLOR: black">General pattern
discussion</SPAN></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA
sequences for 2011 and beyond<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Over 10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed
its work on the new sequences. These were posted on the NSRCA
website for review and comment - see below:<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html"><A
href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</A></A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Included in all this material was a draft document that
outlined the process on how sequences are developed, tested and approved
and the makeup/content of the sequences based on the class it is meant to
serve. This document is titled "NSRCA Procedures, Standards and
Guidelines for AMA R/C Precision Aerobatics Sequence Development". A
mouthful, but it does outline a lot of information. It details the
charter for the Sequence Committee, sequence development standards and
guidelines for all classes, catalog of maneuvers for all classes and the
process that the NSRCA will follow in designing, testing and approving
changes to sequences, or for proposed sequences. These sequence
development standards and guidelines have been in place for about 4 years
now and have been used very successfully to build the current set of
sequences that everyone is flying today, in addition to the prior Masters
sequence (and the new one as well).<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Overall we received positive comments on the proposed
sequences from Sportsman through Masters. As you know, there were
two sequences developed for Masters, a long sequence using the standard 23
maneuver count and a short sequence using 19 maneuvers. In the time
since we posted the sequences, some informal surveys were also made on the
NSRCA website as well as on RCU asking for a preference of either the
short or long Masters schedule. The overwhelming majority of
respondents chose the short sequence. However, these surveys were a
little flawed in that we didn't really know who was voting for them - were
they all judges/pilots who voted because they didn't want to judge a long
sequence, or were they really current and/or future Masters pilots that
really did want to fly a shorter sequence.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Since the release of the proposed schedules, and some post
Nats comments, the sequence committee has been hard at work making some
tweaks to the short schedule with a view to increasing the difficulty
level of the short Masters sequence to bring it into line with the long
Masters sequence and also to ensure that we weren't lowering the bar in
difficulty by introducing a shorter sequence. Bear in mind that the
short sequence is only 19 maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so raising the
difficulty level is a challenge if one is to avoid using some existing F3A
type maneuvers, or "airplane killers", and to only use maneuvers that
match the philosophy that we've embraced for a number of years.
Since we've never developed a short Masters sequence, we need to
make sure we get it right and that it not only provides a challenge to
those that fly it but that it still provides a somewhat relatively higher
jump for those pilots that are moving up from Advanced. We realize
that creating a perfect schedule is not going to happen - we won't be able
to please every pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be able to
please some former F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and
isn't enough of a challenge. There has to be a balance. The
Sequence Committee came up with some good positive changes and these are
being vetted/tested as I write this. They've received extremely
positive feedback from everyone that has either flown the newer short
sequence on a simulator or using their pattern plane at the field.
By the end of this weekend we'll know for sure whether it is a
keeper or not.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>When we do post the revised sequence I would like all of
you that have "skin in this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot
or will be moving to Masters in the next year or two, to please contact
your NSRCA District VP and let them know what your preference is - short
or long sequence. The reason they need to know is that the NSRCA
board will vote in the next couple of weeks to approve all the proposed
sequences and also to select which sequence the Masters class will be
flying in 2011/2012.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>The Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave
Lockhart, Verne Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis.
They've put in an extraordinary amount of work on these sequences
and documentation and deserve huge kudos from everyone! Thanks guys
- your work is very much appreciated!<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>We've also created a Sequence Committee section on the
NSRCA website which will have more information soon. It will contain
the updated draft documentation and all the proposed sequences in one
location. You can get to the new section from the main menu - just
look for Sequence Committee - it is near the bottom of the
menu.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No virus found in this incoming
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com"><A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A></A><BR>Version: 9.0.851 / Virus
Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10
02:34:00</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
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