<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>M<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">y two cents:</span>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">A loop with<br>
</span><br>
<div style="clear:both"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Jon Lowe</font></font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dave <DaveL322@comcast.net><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:41 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_34ea8a0e-2f4e-4ea4-8294-2fa2e4b0e4ee">
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<div class="Section1">
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The Seq Com indeed wrote the document…..based
on data collected from multiple surveys and smaller bits of data/guidance generated
by prior Seq Coms. It is by no means a stagnant document, it was designed
to be flexible, and has been updated several times since it was originally
penned.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">As Arch stated, the current doctrine does
not allow integrated loop/roll maneuvers, and that is based on majority feedback
to date.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">My personal opinion is that something like
a loop with a roll on top would be a good maneuver for Masters….it is not
hard to do, but it is very hard to do well. If the majority of those with
a direct stake in Masters want the loop with roll on top, we’d likely see
it added to both the Masters sequence and the Seq Guidance Doc would be
updated.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">And just to be clear, my use of “direct
stake” means pilots currently in Masters, those in Advanced moving up to
Masters, and FAI pilots changing to Masters.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><br>
Dave Lockhart</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
7:07 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General
pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:windowtext"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Didn't the sequence committee write the doctrine? It
should be a living document with a clear and easy path to modify it and keep it
current. <br>
That is the problem with many process documents. Once written they become law
and immutable.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/23/2010 4:53 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The 4pt is exactly the type of maneuver Dave is
referring to. I know becausehe and I have both pushed for that. I dont think we
need some of the really crazy stuff, but we need to start adding some. I dont
think we need them at the bottom of loops, but the current doctrine the
sequence committee has to follow will notallow a loop with a 4pt at the
top. </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Arch <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
On Sep 23, 2010, at 6:46 PM, "Dave Harmon" <<a href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D">An avalanche or 4 pt roll in a loop is not an <i><span style="font-style:italic">‘FAI or IMAC style’</span></i> integrated
maneuver.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold">Dave Harmon</span></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold">NSRCA 586</span></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold">K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net</span></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold">Sperry, Ok.</span></font></b></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in; border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
5:31 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General
pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Why
not? An avalanche is an integrated maneuver. A 4pt roll at the top of a
loop is certainly in the skill set of a masters pilot. </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Arch<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
On Sep 23, 2010, at 3:38 PM, "Dave Harmon" <<a href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D">I agree with Dave l but otherwise I disagree
totally…..FAI and IMAC style integrated maneuvers don’t belong in
Masters.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family: "Comic Sans MS";font-weight:bold">Dave Harmon</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family: "Comic Sans MS";font-weight:bold">NSRCA 586</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family: "Comic Sans MS";font-weight:bold">K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family: "Comic Sans MS";font-weight:bold">Sperry, Ok.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></b></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in; border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Dr Mike<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
9:58 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'General
pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D">I totally agree with you, Dave, however, I would
encourage the Masters sequence to begin including some integrated, safe stuff,
such as a loop with roll at top or some such thing. It just simply
makes the event so much more fun and exciting.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D">Thanks</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D">Mike </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family: Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in; border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
9:13 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'General
pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">John,</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">The only bit of your discussion I differ on is regarding the
difficulty level for the “destination” class Masters. It is
only a destination for some, and regardless of whether or not it is a
destination class (in practice, name, or design), the difficulty level should
be set based on the wishes of the majority – not the difficulty level of
FAI. We (AMA pattern pilots) can always choose to set the difficulty
level of Masters slightly less than, equal to, or slightly greater than FAI.
But since we (AMA pattern pilots) have pretty much zero input or
influence on FAI, we should never tie ourselves to the FAI schedule allowing it
to dictate the difficulty level of Masters. Masters and FAI do not share
the share goal, and never will.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Advancement systems aside, someone will be moving up or down for
whatever reason(s), and I’m happy to partake in the celebrating or
commiserating </span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Wingdings"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy">J</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Dave Lockhart</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 11:29 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General
pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dave,<br>
<br>
Every time you move to a new class including sportsman there are potential
airplane killers lurking. Long ago and far away, I remember losing two
airplanes learning to do three consecutive rolls centered. If combined
roll/loop maneuvers were introduced to Masters, the Masters pilots would
quickly sort out how to execute them. My only point in addressing the
lack of these maneuvers in Masters is the fact that it is the final AMA
destination class and as such should deliver equivalent difficulty to F3A.
Otherwise it is a feeder class without Advancement requirements.<br>
<br>
In other countries where advancement to the next class has to be earned (by
scoring average and the national organization keeps track), getting an
advancement notice is cause for celebration and usually involves lots of beer.
In Australia
everyone aspires to gain admittance into the top level (which flies the F3A
schedules and from which their World team is selected). The flip side is
that if you start flying poorly or not at all, you find yourself moving back a
class or two.<br>
<br>
Such a system has a lot of merit. Keep flying well against your peers, you move
up. Fly poorly, you move down. The beer sounds good too. Celebrate on the way
up, commiserate on the way down, drinks all around in either case.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 6:28 PM, Dave wrote: </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">John,</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">First, without picking a side on this particular debate, I’d
offer the following comments / perspectives –</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">- Historically, surveys and polls have answered that integrated
looping/rolling maneuvers should not be included in the Masters pattern.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">- an “airplane killer” looks a lot differently to a
skilled Masters pilot compared to a middle of the pack advanced pilot moving
into Masters, and this concern has historically been expressed, and is a hot
button for a substantial number.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Second, my opinions -</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">I fly FAI because I want to…I want the more challenging
schedules and higher level of competition. Arguably, the FAI P schedule
is not more difficult in some years, and I could easily argue it does not
contain state of the art maneuvers, but flying FAI is still more difficult if
for no other reason than a pilots time must be split between flying P, F, and
unknowns.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Masters has a wide range of pilot abilities, and is
“home” for many for different reasons. As such, it will
always be a compromise class, unlike FAI F3A which is focused on picking the
best F3A Team in the world and the best individual pilot in the world. So
long as the majority of Masters do not want state of the art maneuvers, Masters
should not have state of the art maneuvers.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">I do believe it might be a little easier to establish and maintain
the difficulty level of each class and the steps between the classes IF a
system were established that required a pilot advance to the next higher class
based on achieving a given proficiency, and also demoted a pilot who did not
achieve a minimum standard. Several countries use this approach, and from
what I have seen, it appears to work as well or better than the point system
used in the US.
Mandatory advancement to F3A is a separate, but related topic.</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">Dave Lockhart</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a></span></font></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 6:40 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General
pattern discussion; Mark Hunt<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Ro , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Ro , serif , serif ;""> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Ro , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Ro , serif , serif ;"">Derek,<br>
<br>
I thought we already selected a pattern through the survey. Is the survey now
meaningless because it chose the wrong length pattern?<br>
<br>
I'm not quite sure I understand the logic behind raising the complexity of the
short pattern at this late date, either. The sequence committee has
worked on these patterns for two years or so and now it appears that because of
a few comments at the Nats or whatever that all that work and the surveys are
to be thrown out or at least revisited.<br>
I offered comments on the patterns 6 months ago and and said at that time that
the Masters pattern was too easy in some areas. Didn't see anyone jumping to
and making changes then. <br>
Comments about airplane killer maneuvers are also uncalled for. Any Masters
pilot should be able to perform integrated roll/loop maneuvers without
endangering the airplane. Making them good enough to score 8s and 9s, well
that's a different matter. If you are making changes to the Masters
pattern and keeping its role as a destination class, I firmly believe it should
contain <u>state of the art</u> pattern maneuvers.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<br>
District 6 Advanced pilot<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 4:10 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Ro , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Ro , serif , serif ;"">Dave, </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:"Times New , serif , serif ;""> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:"Times New , serif , serif ;"">You are correct in that
everyone is impacted on a short vs long schedule - my apologies for the
definition of who is impacted. Regardless, please voice your opinion to your
District VP.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:"Times New , serif , serif ;""> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-Derek</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times Ne , serif , serif ;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne , serif , serif ;"">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at
3:05 PM, Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>> wrote:</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Derek,</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I
really object to your definition of who has “Skin in the game” -
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">We all do if we pay our dues and attend
contest</span></b>.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
“skin” is the impact of a long vs. short sequence for every Masters
flyer, Flyer who will be flying Masters in the next two years, every flyer/non
flyer who judges at a contest, and every other flyer in all the other class who
have to wait until the typically large Masters class finishes whatever sequence
they fly.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">So,
whether I fly Masters in the next two years or not, I intend to let my opinion
be known to my district VP and I expect him to give my view the same weight of
any other opinion from “Masters” flyers or others. </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This
is an issue that should not be decided by only “Masters” flyers.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dave
Burton</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in; border-color:-moz-use-text-color">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General
pattern discussion</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Over
10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed its work on the new
sequences. These were posted on the NSRCA website for review and comment
- see below:</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a target="_blank" href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Included
in all this material was a draft document that outlined the process on how
sequences are developed, tested and approved and the makeup/content of the
sequences based on the class it is meant to serve. This document is
titled "NSRCA Procedures, Standards and Guidelines for AMA R/C Precision
Aerobatics Sequence Development". A mouthful, but it does outline a
lot of information. It details the charter for the Sequence Committee,
sequence development standards and guidelines for all classes, catalog of
maneuvers for all classes and the process that the NSRCA will follow in
designing, testing and approving changes to sequences, or for proposed
sequences. These sequence development standards and guidelines have been
in place for about 4 years now and have been used very successfully to build
the current set of sequences that everyone is flying today, in addition to the
prior Masters sequence (and the new one as well).</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Overall
we received positive comments on the proposed sequences from Sportsman through
Masters. As you know, there were two sequences developed for Masters, a
long sequence using the standard 23 maneuver count and a short sequence using
19 maneuvers. In the time since we posted the sequences, some informal
surveys were also made on the NSRCA website as well as on RCU asking for a
preference of either the short or long Masters schedule. The overwhelming
majority of respondents chose the short sequence. However, these surveys
were a little flawed in that we didn't really know who was voting for them -
were they all judges/pilots who voted because they didn't want to judge a long
sequence, or were they really current and/or future Masters pilots that really
did want to fly a shorter sequence.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Since
the release of the proposed schedules, and some post Nats comments, the
sequence committee has been hard at work making some tweaks to the short
schedule with a view to increasing the difficulty level of the short Masters
sequence to bring it into line with the long Masters sequence and also to
ensure that we weren't lowering the bar in difficulty by introducing a shorter
sequence. Bear in mind that the short sequence is only 19 maneuvers (17
of them flyable) so raising the difficulty level is a challenge if one is to
avoid using some existing F3A type maneuvers, or "airplane killers",
and to only use maneuvers that match the philosophy that we've embraced for a
number of years. Since we've never developed a short Masters sequence, we
need to make sure we get it right and that it not only provides a challenge to
those that fly it but that it still provides a somewhat relatively higher jump
for those pilots that are moving up from Advanced. We realize that
creating a perfect schedule is not going to happen - we won't be able to please
every pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be able to please some
former F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and isn't enough of a
challenge. There has to be a balance. The Sequence Committee came up
with some good positive changes and these are being vetted/tested as I write
this. They've received extremely positive feedback from everyone that has
either flown the newer short sequence on a simulator or using their pattern
plane at the field. By the end of this weekend we'll know for sure
whether it is a keeper or not.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">When
we do post the revised sequence I would like all of you that have "skin in
this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot or will be moving to
Masters in the next year or two, to please contact your NSRCA District VP and
let them know what your preference is - short or long sequence. The
reason they need to know is that the NSRCA board will vote in the next couple
of weeks to approve all the proposed sequences and also to select which
sequence the Masters class will be flying in 2011/2012.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave Lockhart, Verne Koester,
Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis. They've put in an
extraordinary amount of work on these sequences and documentation and deserve
huge kudos from everyone! Thanks guys - your work is very much
appreciated!</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We've
also created a Sequence Committee section on the NSRCA website which will have
more information soon. It will contain the updated draft documentation
and all the proposed sequences in one location. You can get to the new
section from the main menu - just look for Sequence Committee - it is near the
bottom of the menu.</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></pre></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></pre></div>
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
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