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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This feels like a VERY bad slippery slope and one and only
reservation that was discussed when debating the proposal to remove the
sequences from the rule book.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave, to extrapolate this to the other classes, does this imply
that we should only get input from those flying Sportsman in determining what
that schedule should look like??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>IMHO the sequence committee should be comprised of experienced,
active, moderate to upper level pattern flyers. They should solicit input
from the classes, the pattern flying public in general regarding the likes and
dislikes. And then amongst themselves create new sequences (somewhat in
privacy) taking that feedback, their experience, and the NSRCA guidelines, and
put forth new schedules on some regular basis to be voted UP or DOWN for the
subsequence period. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m a fan of democracy, but in this case I think we need
an experienced Republic. A group that we nominate/elect, and TRUST to put
forth schedules that meet our needs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Basically that’s what FAI does. I don’t get to
argue about the current sequence. I CAN however comment and make my
opinion heard for the next ones and hope that those concerns are echoed by
other pilots and that those concerns are taken into account for the next
schedules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Progress is ok, but constant change of our schedule criteria to
meet the whims of a vocal few would be a very very very bad thing. The
survey gives us general feedback from the masses. Experience provides insight
into how best to prepare each class for the next. The guidelines provides
some boundaries, some checks and balances to make sure the group doesn’t
stray too far afield in any one cycle of change.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Lets let the committee do their thing (they already have in my
opinion for 2011-2012) and work with it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m not a huge fan of the 6point roll segments they’re
introducing in FAI… but we have them in 2013. We’ll fly them.
And we’ll provide feedback. And the cycle will continue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Mark
Atwood</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Paragon
Consulting, Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> President</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>5885 Landerbrook Drive
Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Phone:
440.684.3101 x102 </span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Fax: 440.684.3102</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
</span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1351F3'><a
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>The Seq Com indeed wrote the document…..based on data
collected from multiple surveys and smaller bits of data/guidance generated by
prior Seq Coms. It is by no means a stagnant document, it was designed to
be flexible, and has been updated several times since it was originally penned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>As Arch stated, the current doctrine does not allow integrated
loop/roll maneuvers, and that is based on majority feedback to date.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>My personal opinion is that something like a loop with a roll on
top would be a good maneuver for Masters….it is not hard to do, but it is
very hard to do well. If the majority of those with a direct stake in
Masters want the loop with roll on top, we’d likely see it added to both
the Masters sequence and the Seq Guidance Doc would be updated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>And just to be clear, my use of “direct stake” means
pilots currently in Masters, those in Advanced moving up to Masters, and FAI
pilots changing to Masters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><br>
Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 23, 2010 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Didn't the sequence committee write the doctrine? It should
be a living document with a clear and easy path to modify it and keep it
current. <br>
That is the problem with many process documents. Once written they become law
and immutable.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/23/2010 4:53 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The 4pt is exactly the type of maneuver Dave is referring
to. I know becausehe and I have both pushed for that. I dont think we need some
of the really crazy stuff, but we need to start adding some. I dont think we
need them at the bottom of loops, but the current doctrine the sequence
committee has to follow will notallow a loop with a 4pt at the top. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Arch <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Sep 23, 2010, at 6:46 PM, "Dave Harmon" <<a
href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>An
avalanche or 4 pt roll in a loop is not an <i>‘FAI or IMAC style’</i>
integrated maneuver.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'>Dave Harmon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'>NSRCA 586</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'>K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'>Sperry, Ok.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Why
not? An avalanche is an integrated maneuver. A 4pt roll at the top of a
loop is certainly in the skill set of a masters pilot. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Arch<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Sep 23, 2010, at 3:38 PM, "Dave Harmon" <<a
href="mailto:k6xyz@sbcglobal.net">k6xyz@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
agree with Dave l but otherwise I disagree totally…..FAI and IMAC
style integrated maneuvers don’t belong in Masters.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Dave Harmon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>NSRCA 586</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Sperry, Ok.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr Mike<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
totally agree with you, Dave, however, I would encourage the Masters sequence
to begin including some integrated, safe stuff, such as a loop with roll
at top or some such thing. It just simply makes the event so much more
fun and exciting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>The only
bit of your discussion I differ on is regarding the difficulty level for the
“destination” class Masters. It is only a destination for
some, and regardless of whether or not it is a destination class (in practice,
name, or design), the difficulty level should be set based on the wishes of the
majority – not the difficulty level of FAI. We (AMA pattern pilots)
can always choose to set the difficulty level of Masters slightly less than,
equal to, or slightly greater than FAI. But since we (AMA pattern pilots)
have pretty much zero input or influence on FAI, we should never tie ourselves
to the FAI schedule allowing it to dictate the difficulty level of Masters.
Masters and FAI do not share the share goal, and never will.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Advancement
systems aside, someone will be moving up or down for whatever reason(s), and
I’m happy to partake in the celebrating or commiserating </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Dave
Lockhart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dave,<br>
<br>
Every time you move to a new class including sportsman there are potential
airplane killers lurking. Long ago and far away, I remember losing two
airplanes learning to do three consecutive rolls centered. If combined
roll/loop maneuvers were introduced to Masters, the Masters pilots would
quickly sort out how to execute them. My only point in addressing the
lack of these maneuvers in Masters is the fact that it is the final AMA destination
class and as such should deliver equivalent difficulty to F3A. Otherwise it is
a feeder class without Advancement requirements.<br>
<br>
In other countries where advancement to the next class has to be earned (by
scoring average and the national organization keeps track), getting an
advancement notice is cause for celebration and usually involves lots of beer.
In Australia everyone aspires to gain admittance into the top level (which
flies the F3A schedules and from which their World team is selected). The
flip side is that if you start flying poorly or not at all, you find yourself
moving back a class or two.<br>
<br>
Such a system has a lot of merit. Keep flying well against your peers, you move
up. Fly poorly, you move down. The beer sounds good too. Celebrate on the way
up, commiserate on the way down, drinks all around in either case.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 6:28 PM, Dave wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>First,
without picking a side on this particular debate, I’d offer the following
comments / perspectives –</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>-
Historically, surveys and polls have answered that integrated looping/rolling
maneuvers should not be included in the Masters pattern.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>- an
“airplane killer” looks a lot differently to a skilled Masters
pilot compared to a middle of the pack advanced pilot moving into Masters, and
this concern has historically been expressed, and is a hot button for a
substantial number.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Second, my
opinions -</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I fly FAI
because I want to…I want the more challenging schedules and higher level
of competition. Arguably, the FAI P schedule is not more difficult in
some years, and I could easily argue it does not contain state of the art
maneuvers, but flying FAI is still more difficult if for no other reason than a
pilots time must be split between flying P, F, and unknowns.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Masters has
a wide range of pilot abilities, and is “home” for many for
different reasons. As such, it will always be a compromise class, unlike
FAI F3A which is focused on picking the best F3A Team in the world and the best
individual pilot in the world. So long as the majority of Masters do not
want state of the art maneuvers, Masters should not have state of the art
maneuvers.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I do
believe it might be a little easier to establish and maintain the difficulty
level of each class and the steps between the classes IF a system were
established that required a pilot advance to the next higher class based on
achieving a given proficiency, and also demoted a pilot who did not achieve a
minimum standard. Several countries use this approach, and from what I
have seen, it appears to work as well or better than the point system used in
the US. Mandatory advancement to F3A is a separate, but related topic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Dave
Lockhart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><a
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 6:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion; Mark Hunt<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and
beyond</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New Ro \, serif \, serif \;"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New Ro \, serif \, serif \;"'>Derek,<br>
<br>
I thought we already selected a pattern through the survey. Is the survey now
meaningless because it chose the wrong length pattern?<br>
<br>
I'm not quite sure I understand the logic behind raising the complexity of the
short pattern at this late date, either. The sequence committee has
worked on these patterns for two years or so and now it appears that because of
a few comments at the Nats or whatever that all that work and the surveys are
to be thrown out or at least revisited.<br>
I offered comments on the patterns 6 months ago and and said at that time that
the Masters pattern was too easy in some areas. Didn't see anyone jumping to
and making changes then. <br>
Comments about airplane killer maneuvers are also uncalled for. Any Masters
pilot should be able to perform integrated roll/loop maneuvers without
endangering the airplane. Making them good enough to score 8s and 9s, well
that's a different matter. If you are making changes to the Masters
pattern and keeping its role as a destination class, I firmly believe it should
contain <u>state of the art</u> pattern maneuvers.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<br>
District 6 Advanced pilot<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 4:10 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New Ro \, serif \, serif \;"'>Dave, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New \, serif \, serif \;"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New \, serif \, serif \;"'>You are correct in that
everyone is impacted on a short vs long schedule - my apologies for the
definition of who is impacted. Regardless, please voice your opinion to
your District VP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times New \, serif \, serif \;"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-Derek<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Times Ne \, serif \, serif \;"'>On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at
3:05 PM, Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>Derek,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>I really object to your definition of who has
“Skin in the game” - <b>We all do if we pay our dues and
attend contest</b>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>The “skin” is the impact of a long vs.
short sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be flying Masters in the
next two years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a contest, and every other
flyer in all the other class who have to wait until the typically large Masters
class finishes whatever sequence they fly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>So, whether I fly Masters in the next two years or
not, I intend to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I expect him to
give my view the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters”
flyers or others. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>This is an issue that should not be decided by only
“Masters” flyers.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>Dave Burton</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Over
10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed its work on the new
sequences. These were posted on the NSRCA website for review and comment
- see below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a
href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Included
in all this material was a draft document that outlined the process on how
sequences are developed, tested and approved and the makeup/content of the
sequences based on the class it is meant to serve. This document is
titled "NSRCA Procedures, Standards and Guidelines for AMA R/C Precision
Aerobatics Sequence Development". A mouthful, but it does outline a
lot of information. It details the charter for the Sequence Committee,
sequence development standards and guidelines for all classes, catalog of
maneuvers for all classes and the process that the NSRCA will follow in
designing, testing and approving changes to sequences, or for proposed
sequences. These sequence development standards and guidelines have been
in place for about 4 years now and have been used very successfully to build
the current set of sequences that everyone is flying today, in addition to the
prior Masters sequence (and the new one as well).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Overall
we received positive comments on the proposed sequences from Sportsman through
Masters. As you know, there were two sequences developed for Masters, a
long sequence using the standard 23 maneuver count and a short sequence using
19 maneuvers. In the time since we posted the sequences, some informal
surveys were also made on the NSRCA website as well as on RCU asking for a preference
of either the short or long Masters schedule. The overwhelming majority
of respondents chose the short sequence. However, these surveys were a
little flawed in that we didn't really know who was voting for them - were they
all judges/pilots who voted because they didn't want to judge a long sequence,
or were they really current and/or future Masters pilots that really did want
to fly a shorter sequence.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Since
the release of the proposed schedules, and some post Nats comments, the sequence
committee has been hard at work making some tweaks to the short schedule with a
view to increasing the difficulty level of the short Masters sequence to bring
it into line with the long Masters sequence and also to ensure that we weren't
lowering the bar in difficulty by introducing a shorter sequence. Bear in
mind that the short sequence is only 19 maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so
raising the difficulty level is a challenge if one is to avoid using some
existing F3A type maneuvers, or "airplane killers", and to only use
maneuvers that match the philosophy that we've embraced for a number of years.
Since we've never developed a short Masters sequence, we need to make
sure we get it right and that it not only provides a challenge to those that
fly it but that it still provides a somewhat relatively higher jump for those
pilots that are moving up from Advanced. We realize that creating a
perfect schedule is not going to happen - we won't be able to please every
pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be able to please some former
F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and isn't enough of a challenge.
There has to be a balance. The Sequence Committee came up with some
good positive changes and these are being vetted/tested as I write this.
They've received extremely positive feedback from everyone that has
either flown the newer short sequence on a simulator or using their pattern
plane at the field. By the end of this weekend we'll know for sure
whether it is a keeper or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When
we do post the revised sequence I would like all of you that have "skin in
this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot or will be moving to
Masters in the next year or two, to please contact your NSRCA District VP and
let them know what your preference is - short or long sequence. The
reason they need to know is that the NSRCA board will vote in the next couple
of weeks to approve all the proposed sequences and also to select which
sequence the Masters class will be flying in 2011/2012.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave Lockhart, Verne Koester,
Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis. They've put in an
extraordinary amount of work on these sequences and documentation and deserve
huge kudos from everyone! Thanks guys - your work is very much
appreciated!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We've
also created a Sequence Committee section on the NSRCA website which will have
more information soon. It will contain the updated draft documentation
and all the proposed sequences in one location. You can get to the new
section from the main menu - just look for Sequence Committee - it is near the
bottom of the menu.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
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