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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>First, without picking a side on this
particular debate, I’d offer the following comments / perspectives –<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Historically, surveys and polls have
answered that integrated looping/rolling maneuvers should not be included in
the Masters pattern.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- an “airplane killer” looks a
lot differently to a skilled Masters pilot compared to a middle of the pack
advanced pilot moving into Masters, and this concern has historically been
expressed, and is a hot button for a substantial number.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Second, my opinions -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I fly FAI because I want to…I want
the more challenging schedules and higher level of competition. Arguably,
the FAI P schedule is not more difficult in some years, and I could easily
argue it does not contain state of the art maneuvers, but flying FAI is still
more difficult if for no other reason than a pilots time must be split between
flying P, F, and unknowns.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Masters has a wide range of pilot
abilities, and is “home” for many for different reasons. As
such, it will always be a compromise class, unlike FAI F3A which is focused on
picking the best F3A Team in the world and the best individual pilot in the
world. So long as the majority of Masters do not want state of the art
maneuvers, Masters should not have state of the art maneuvers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do believe it might be a little easier
to establish and maintain the difficulty level of each class and the steps
between the classes IF a system were established that required a pilot advance
to the next higher class based on achieving a given proficiency, and also
demoted a pilot who did not achieve a minimum standard. Several countries
use this approach, and from what I have seen, it appears to work as well or
better than the point system used in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Mandatory advancement to
F3A is a separate, but related topic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 6:40 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>; Mark Hunt<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Derek,<br>
<br>
I thought we already selected a pattern through the survey. Is the survey now
meaningless because it chose the wrong length pattern?<br>
<br>
I'm not quite sure I understand the logic behind raising the complexity of the
short pattern at this late date, either. The sequence committee has
worked on these patterns for two years or so and now it appears that because of
a few comments at the Nats or whatever that all that work and the surveys are
to be thrown out or at least revisited.<br>
I offered comments on the patterns 6 months ago and and said at that time that
the Masters pattern was too easy in some areas. Didn't see anyone jumping to
and making changes then. <br>
Comments about airplane killer maneuvers are also uncalled for. Any Masters
pilot should be able to perform integrated roll/loop maneuvers without
endangering the airplane. Making them good enough to score 8s and 9s, well
that's a different matter. If you are making changes to the Masters
pattern and keeping its role as a destination class, I firmly believe it should
contain <u>state of the art</u> pattern maneuvers.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<br>
District 6 Advanced pilot<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 4:10 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dave, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>You are correct in that everyone is impacted on a
short vs long schedule - my apologies for the definition of who is impacted.
Regardless, please voice your opinion to your District VP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-Derek<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave Burton <<a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" moz-do-not-send=true>burtona@atmc.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=purple>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>Derek,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>I really object to your definition of who has “Skin in the
game” - <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>We all do if we pay our
dues and attend contest</span></b>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>The “skin” is the impact of a long vs. short sequence
for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be flying Masters in the next two
years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a contest, and every other flyer in
all the other class who have to wait until the typically large Masters class
finishes whatever sequence they fly.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>So, whether I fly Masters in the next two years or not, I intend
to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I expect him to give my view
the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters” flyers or
others. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>This is an issue that should not be decided by only
“Masters” flyers.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>Dave Burton</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Over
10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed its work on the new
sequences. These were posted on the NSRCA website for review and comment
- see below:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Included
in all this material was a draft document that outlined the process on how
sequences are developed, tested and approved and the makeup/content of the
sequences based on the class it is meant to serve. This document is titled
"NSRCA Procedures, Standards and Guidelines for AMA R/C Precision
Aerobatics Sequence Development". A mouthful, but it does outline a
lot of information. It details the charter for the Sequence Committee,
sequence development standards and guidelines for all classes, catalog of
maneuvers for all classes and the process that the NSRCA will follow in
designing, testing and approving changes to sequences, or for proposed
sequences. These sequence development standards and guidelines have been
in place for about 4 years now and have been used very successfully to build
the current set of sequences that everyone is flying today, in addition to the
prior Masters sequence (and the new one as well).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Overall
we received positive comments on the proposed sequences from Sportsman through
Masters. As you know, there were two sequences developed for Masters, a
long sequence using the standard 23 maneuver count and a short sequence using
19 maneuvers. In the time since we posted the sequences, some informal
surveys were also made on the NSRCA website as well as on RCU asking for a
preference of either the short or long Masters schedule. The overwhelming
majority of respondents chose the short sequence. However, these surveys
were a little flawed in that we didn't really know who was voting for them -
were they all judges/pilots who voted because they didn't want to judge a long
sequence, or were they really current and/or future Masters pilots that really
did want to fly a shorter sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Since
the release of the proposed schedules, and some post Nats comments, the
sequence committee has been hard at work making some tweaks to the short
schedule with a view to increasing the difficulty level of the short Masters
sequence to bring it into line with the long Masters sequence and also to
ensure that we weren't lowering the bar in difficulty by introducing a shorter
sequence. Bear in mind that the short sequence is only 19 maneuvers (17
of them flyable) so raising the difficulty level is a challenge if one is to
avoid using some existing F3A type maneuvers, or "airplane killers",
and to only use maneuvers that match the philosophy that we've embraced for a
number of years. Since we've never developed a short Masters sequence, we
need to make sure we get it right and that it not only provides a challenge to
those that fly it but that it still provides a somewhat relatively higher jump
for those pilots that are moving up from Advanced. We realize that
creating a perfect schedule is not going to happen - we won't be able to please
every pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be able to please some
former F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and isn't enough of a
challenge. There has to be a balance. The Sequence Committee came
up with some good positive changes and these are being vetted/tested as I write
this. They've received extremely positive feedback from everyone that has
either flown the newer short sequence on a simulator or using their pattern
plane at the field. By the end of this weekend we'll know for sure
whether it is a keeper or not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>When
we do post the revised sequence I would like all of you that have "skin in
this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot or will be moving to
Masters in the next year or two, to please contact your NSRCA District VP and
let them know what your preference is - short or long sequence. The
reason they need to know is that the NSRCA board will vote in the next couple
of weeks to approve all the proposed sequences and also to select which sequence
the Masters class will be flying in 2011/2012.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>The
Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave Lockhart, Verne Koester,
Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis. They've put in an
extraordinary amount of work on these sequences and documentation and deserve
huge kudos from everyone! Thanks guys - your work is very much
appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>We've
also created a Sequence Committee section on the NSRCA website which will have
more information soon. It will contain the updated draft documentation
and all the proposed sequences in one location. You can get to the new
section from the main menu - just look for Sequence Committee - it is near the
bottom of the menu.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>No
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Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank"
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Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10
02:34:00</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
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