<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Third time MAY be a charm...</span>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Derek,</span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><br>
</span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">You answered part 2 of my email. &nbsp;Thanks!</span></span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><br>
</span></span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">I'd still like to see the proposed revisions today if possible. &nbsp;They need to be posted now for feedback to the committee. &nbsp;I also didn't get an answer of exactly when the VP's will vote, this year. &nbsp;What is the date of the vote?</span></span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><br>
</span></span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Jon</span></span></div>

<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica; ">-----Original Message-----</span></div>

<div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">From: Derek Koopowitz &lt;derekkoopowitz@gmail.com&gt;<br>
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 7:11 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<br>
<br>







<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_b6fd59b8-d64d-473b-bb77-b1a5a475e8f3">

Jon,
<div><br>
</div>

<div>Based on the preliminary votes I think the removal of the schedules from the rule book will pass (I'll keep my fingers crossed), which essentially means that we could possibly wait until 12/31/2010 before the NSRCA board announces the new schedules for 2011/2012. &nbsp;That won't happen (waiting until 12/31) since it isn't fair and doesn't make sense. &nbsp;I've revised the guide which includes a defined timeline and I'm just waiting on some minor adjustments to be made before I have the board review and approve the guide. &nbsp;Here is the draft timeline that is in the revised guide:</div>


<div><br>
</div>

<div>
<div class="NSRCAStyle1"><a name="_Toc272919817"></a><a name="_Toc272909297"><span style="mso-bookmark:_Toc272919817"><span style="mso-list:  Ignore">1.0<span style="font:7.0pt ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span>Sequence Submittal Process</span></a> </div>



<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
following is the recommended timeline for the development and submission of new
sequences. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Sequence development should
always start in the year prior to when the sequence is to be replaced.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>For example, if the Masters sequence (2 year
lifecycle) is to be replaced in 2013 (X) then work on the development of a new
sequence should start in 2011 (X – 2).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;
</span>What follows is a timeline showing the activity (task) and the month the
activity should start:</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:  normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></b></div>



<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt">TASK</span></u><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><span style="mso-tab-count:8">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span><u>TIMELINE</u></span></div>




<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Assign and approve Committee
Chairperson<span style="mso-tab-count:3">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>October - year X – 2</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Committee Chairperson
recruits Committee Membership<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>October – year X - 2</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">BoD approves Committee
Membership<span style="mso-tab-count:2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;
</span>November – year X - 2</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Establish development schedule<span style="mso-tab-count:4">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>December – year X - 2</span></div>




<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Review design
criteria/receive BoD approval for changes<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>December – year X - 2</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Develop preliminary changes/sequences
and flight test<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>January through March – year X - 1</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Publish for public comment on
NSRCA website/K-Factor<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>April through May – year X - 1</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Finalize changes/sequence
selection based on comments<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>June through August – year X - 1</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Submit proposed
changes/sequences to BoD for approval<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>September – year X - 1</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Publish approved sequences on
NSRCA website/K-Factor<span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>October – year X -1</span></div>



<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">New sequences in use<span style="mso-tab-count:6">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>January – year X</span></div>


<div><br>
</div>

<div>Hopefully this answers your question.</div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div>-Derek</div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Jon Lowe <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">De<span style="font-size:small">rek,</span>

<div><span style="font-size:small">When, exactly, do the District VP's vote on this? A "couple of weeks" doesn't mean much to me. &nbsp; When, exactly, do we get to see the "new and improved" masters sequences? &nbsp;Why aren't they posted now? &nbsp;Why do we have to wait until after "the end of the weekend"? &nbsp;It would appear that they would want as much feedback as they can get, especially at this late date.</span></div>




<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>

</span></div>



<div><span style="font-size:small">&nbsp;&nbsp;When is the schedule for final approval and announcement of the new sequences going to be added to the Sequence development guide? &nbsp;There is a schedule of sorts in there, but it doesn't state when final sequences will be announced. You asked this at the NSRCA Board Meeting this year, and I asked this shortly after the Nats, and got blown off, here:</span></div>




<div><span style="font-size:small"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9899988">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9899988</a></span></div>




<div><span style="font-size:small">So I'm asking again since the guide hasn't been revised in this area.</span></div>



<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>

</span></div>



<div><span style="font-size:small">Since the AMA contest board final vote isn't due to be announced until 30 Sep (ballots were only due to the AMA on 15 Sep), are you sure we will be able to revise our own sequences? &nbsp;Do you have advanced info from the AMA that it passed?</span></div>




<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>

</span></div>



<div><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial">Jon Lowe</span><br>

</span><br>

<br>



<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">
<div class="im">-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Derek Koopowitz &lt;<a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>

To: General pattern discussion &lt;<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
</div>

<div>
<div></div>

<div class="h5">
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:10 pm<br>

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<br>

<br>









<div>



<div>Pattern length for each class has been a design criteria for a number of years and it has been used very successfully to build current and past sequences. &nbsp;Since we are using each of the classes as a building block to the next higher class, it makes sense to use each sequence to work on and build flying skills. &nbsp;One can only do so much with maneuvers in a class before it becomes too intense for the pilot and wears them out (in the lower classes) - that's why Sportsman has box entry/exit breaks during the sequence. &nbsp;BTW, the rules also state that a CD can have Sportsman fly their sequence back-to-back if they'd like to fly a little longer.<br>



<br>



<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM, John Gayer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


  
    
  
  

<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
    Derek,<br>


    <br>


    When it comes to the pattern length we should all have a say. Why
    should the Masters pattern have more maneuvers and take longer than
    any other pattern? You cannot say there is no impact on other flyers
    and their judging duties when Masters is often the largest class and
    use more than their share of the contest time as well. You <i>could</i>
    say that the "content" of each class pattern should be up to those
    with "skin" in the game.<br>


    <br>


    There was nothing in the survey that stated "Vote only for the
    patterns in the class you are flying or may fly next year". Nor do I
    believe that such a statement should be added.<br>

<font color="#888888">
    <br>


    John</font>

<div>

<div></div>



<div><br>


    <br>


    On 9/22/2010 4:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
    <blockquote type="cite">Dave,
      

<div><br>


      </div>


      

<div>After writing my reply to you I got to thinking again and I
        don't agree with your assessment. &nbsp;This is about selecting a
        sequence that matter to the people that fly it not to the people
        that judge it or to the people that may have to wait around to
        fly again because of a large Masters turnout.</div>


      

<div><br>


      </div>


      

<div>Flame away...</div>


      

<div><br>


      </div>


      

<div>-Derek</div>


      

<div><br>


      </div>


      

<div>
        

<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave
          Burton <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>


          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
            

<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
              

<div>
                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Derek,</span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I really object to your
                    definition of who has “Skin in the
                    game” - &nbsp;<b>We all do if we pay our dues and attend
                      contest</b>.</span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">The “skin” is the impact
                    of a long vs. short
                    sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be
                    flying Masters in the next
                    two years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a
                    contest, and every other flyer
                    in all the other class who have to wait until the
                    typically large Masters class
                    finishes whatever sequence they fly.</span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">So, whether I fly Masters
                    in the next two years or not, I intend
                    to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I
                    expect him to give my view
                    the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters”
                    flyers or
                    others. </span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">This is an issue that
                    should not be decided by only “Masters”
                    flyers.</span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Dave Burton</span></div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">&nbsp;</span></div>


                

<div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                  

<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">
                      <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
                      [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek
                      Koopowitz<br>


                      <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:31 PM<br>


                      <b>To:</b> General pattern discussion</span></div>


                  

<div><br>


                    <b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA
                    sequences for 2011 and beyond</div>


                </div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                

<div class="MsoNormal">Over 10 months ago the NSRCA
                  Sequence Committee completed
                  its work on the new sequences. &nbsp;These were posted on
                  the NSRCA website for
                  review and comment - see below:</div>


                

<div>
                  

<div>
                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal"><a target="_blank" href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a></div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">Included in all this material
                        was a draft document that
                        outlined the process on how sequences are
                        developed, tested and approved and
                        the makeup/content of the sequences based on the
                        class it is meant to serve.
                        &nbsp;This document is titled "NSRCA Procedures,
                        Standards and Guidelines
                        for AMA R/C Precision Aerobatics Sequence
                        Development". &nbsp;A mouthful,
                        but it does outline a lot of information. &nbsp;It
                        details the charter for the
                        Sequence Committee, sequence development
                        standards and guidelines for all
                        classes, catalog of maneuvers for all classes
                        and the process that the NSRCA
                        will follow in designing, testing and approving
                        changes to sequences, or for
                        proposed sequences. &nbsp;These sequence development
                        standards and guidelines
                        have been in place for about 4 years now and
                        have been used very successfully
                        to build the current set of sequences that
                        everyone is flying today, in
                        addition to the prior Masters sequence (and the
                        new one as well).</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">Overall we received positive
                        comments on the proposed
                        sequences from Sportsman through Masters. &nbsp;As
                        you know, there were two
                        sequences developed for Masters, a long sequence
                        using the standard 23 maneuver
                        count and a short sequence using 19 maneuvers.
                        &nbsp;In the time since we
                        posted the sequences, some informal surveys were
                        also made on the NSRCA website
                        as well as on RCU asking for a preference of
                        either the short or long Masters
                        schedule. &nbsp;The overwhelming majority of
                        respondents chose the short
                        sequence. &nbsp;However, these surveys were a little
                        flawed in that we didn't
                        really know who was voting for them - were they
                        all judges/pilots who voted
                        because they didn't want to judge a long
                        sequence, or were they really current
                        and/or future Masters pilots that really did
                        want to fly a shorter sequence.</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">Since the release of the
                        proposed schedules, and some post
                        Nats comments, the sequence committee has been
                        hard at work making some tweaks
                        to the short schedule with a view to increasing
                        the difficulty level of the
                        short Masters sequence to bring it into line
                        with the long Masters sequence and
                        also to ensure that we weren't lowering the bar
                        in difficulty by introducing a
                        shorter sequence. &nbsp;Bear in mind that the short
                        sequence is only 19
                        maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so raising the
                        difficulty level is a challenge
                        if one is to avoid using some existing F3A type
                        maneuvers, or "airplane
                        killers", and to only use maneuvers that match
                        the philosophy that we've
                        embraced for a number of years. &nbsp;Since we've
                        never developed a short
                        Masters sequence, we need to make sure we get it
                        right and that it not only
                        provides a challenge to those that fly it but
                        that it still provides a somewhat
                        relatively higher jump for those pilots that are
                        moving up from Advanced.
                        &nbsp;We realize that creating a perfect schedule is
                        not going to happen - we
                        won't be able to please every pilot that moves
                        up from Advanced, nor will we be
                        able to please some former F3A pilots that think
                        the schedule is too easy and
                        isn't enough of a challenge. &nbsp;There has to be a
                        balance. &nbsp;The
                        Sequence Committee came up with some good
                        positive changes and these are being
                        vetted/tested as I write this. &nbsp;They've received
                        extremely positive
                        feedback from everyone that has either flown the
                        newer short sequence on a
                        simulator or using their pattern plane at the
                        field. &nbsp;By the end of this
                        weekend we'll know for sure whether it is a
                        keeper or not.</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">When we do post the revised
                        sequence I would like all of you
                        that have "skin in this game", meaning you are a
                        current Masters
                        pilot or will be moving to Masters in the next
                        year or two, to please contact
                        your NSRCA District VP and let them know what
                        your preference is - short or
                        long sequence. &nbsp;The reason they need to know is
                        that the NSRCA board will
                        vote in the next couple of weeks to approve all
                        the proposed sequences and also
                        to select which sequence the Masters class will
                        be flying in 2011/2012.</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">The Sequence Committee is
                        comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave
                        Lockhart, Verne Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie
                        Stafford, and Richard Lewis.
                        &nbsp;They've put in an extraordinary amount of work
                        on these sequences and
                        documentation and deserve huge kudos from
                        everyone! &nbsp;Thanks guys - your
                        work is very much appreciated!</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>


                    </div>


                    

<div>
                      

<div class="MsoNormal">We've also created a Sequence
                        Committee section on the NSRCA
                        website which will have more information soon.
                        &nbsp;It will contain the
                        updated draft documentation and all the proposed
                        sequences in one location.
                        &nbsp;You can get to the new section from the main
                        menu - just look for
                        Sequence Committee - it is near the bottom of
                        the menu.</div>


                    </div>


                  </div>


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