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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>IF the argument is made that a shorter
Masters sequence will increase the longevity of electrics, that is only true IF
no extra maneuvers are practiced. Airtime is Airtime…..6 minutes of schedule is
no different than 5 minutes of schedule with an extra minute of practice.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Glow guys that want to carry 24 oz and fly
the schedule twice….that is an advantage of flying glow (if you really think
practicing with a plane that changes weight by 1.5 lbs is beneficial).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave L<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Joe Lachowski<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
11:41 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Discussion List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Ah, but ya can't get the extra couple of practice maneuvers
in with electric with the current sequence as you could with
the glow.<br>
<br>
Shorter sequence means a comfortable extra 3 practice maneuvers. Kinda
evens the field of play a little if you don't have the time to get equivalent
practice in a given short time span and are competing for airtime with your
fellow pattern pilots (right Matt?<g>) at the field. Guarantee
I could use little extra practice on the 3 rolls opposite<g> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>From: DaveL322@comcast.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:23:44 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regarding batteries……</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I started flying electric pattern in 2006,
after 3 years of learning electric on smaller foamies and 40 sized sport
planes.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I had a small number of 5000 mah packs not
make 100 flights….and they were replaced or upgraded very cheap by the
manufacturer. I experimented with some lower capacity 3800 – 4300 mah
packs, and they absolutely did not have the longevity as the 5000-5300 mah
packs, so I quit using them.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The last few years, I’ve flown the Masters
schedule occasionally for fun…..it is always very close to the same mah used as
an FAI P flight. Today, I see many setups out there that can be easily
copied and are easily capable of 100+ flights with zero issues for the long
Masters or the FAI P.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Making Masters shorter might decrease cost
for electrics…..but that assumes the batteries stay at 5000-5300 mah…..and no
extra practice is done at the end of the flight.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Electric certainly has a learning curve to
it….and making the event less demanding could make the learning curve less
steep…..but we’ve never allowed glow newbies restarts when they set the needle
badly and flamed out…..so why should electrics be catered to? Doesn’t
make sense to me, and I don’t think it is needed – it is very rare that I see
an experienced electric pilot destroying equipment because of the length of the
Masters sequence, and it is all to easy for an electric newbie to copy an
existing setup that is competitive and durable.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
Dave Lockhart</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net"><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'>DaveL322@comcast.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
10:51 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Masters is the most advanced class we
have in AMA, with arguably the most skilled group of pilots collectively,
flying it. It always has been longer for purposes of differentiation of that
group. The progressive nature of Pattern classes should make that fact obvious
but apparently some folks continue to argue that Masters gets preferential
treatment by getting a disproportionate amount of time at any event.
Well, in a manner of speaking, yes, Masters does get preferential treatment,
out of necessity. So does F3A. It always has been so and will continue as long
as the sport is flown.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> The number of pilots in Masters is
what makes the class take so long to complete a round...not so much the length
of the schedule</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>A couple decades ago in pre TurnAround
times, Intermediate (called Sportsman then) was by far the largest class and
took hours to get through a round, eventhough it had only 10-11 maneuvers in
it.. Masters, in contrast was the smallest/shortest eventhough the schedule was
just as long as today.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I appreciate Scott's honesty regarding
batteries. If flying a 20% shorter Masters schedule helps preserve equipment, I
am all for it. To me, it would help also preserve our numbers and
participation in the long term. Who wants to blow up his equipment? I certainly
don't. How long will someone that loses batteries regularly, stick with
it? I would argue not long. Of course we have powerplant options but many just
love the plug and play nature of electric. It helps participation in
and preservation of the sport and, to me, that's a good thing</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>regards</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MattK</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Scott Smith <js.smith@verizon.net><br>
To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 6:49 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>The short sequence
is not about fair share of contestant time…it’s about the torture FAI pilots
must endure while judging local contests (FAI pilots in my area judge
twice as many rounds as other classes and spend twice as long per round in the
chair.)</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Some say 19
maneuvers versus 23 only shaves a minute of flight time so what’s the
point? I view it as 18% fewer maneuvers that have to be judged and 18%
less time in the chair. I think that’s worth considering.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I favor the short
sequence out of consideration for those that must judge it. Flying
electric, I also like being able to repeat any sequence of four maneuvers
during practice without fear of damaging the batteries.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Scott</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>D1 Masters</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Matthew Frederick<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 23, 2010
1:25 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Who decided that
there should be a fair “share” of contest time? That’s the most ridiculous
argument I’ve ever heard. Masters takes longer not just because the number of
maneuvers in the sequence but also because Masters pilots probably fly half the
speed of any class below them. Who cares? Should we do a survey to see the average
number of people in each class nationwide and make the sequences long enough
that all classes have equal air time? Sportsman (or Novice as I call it) would
end up with a 30 maneuver sequence. The amount of time to fly a sequence should
have NOTHING to do with this. Neither should powerplant choices, average number
of contestants, or anything else anyone wants to throw out there. Simply put,
the Masters sequence needs to be sufficient in difficulty to keep it
competitive year after year for those who have made it a destination, and also
difficult enough (and appropriate) for those who want to be able to move up to
F3A eventually.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Matt</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 5:54 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Derek,<br>
<br>
When it comes to the pattern length we should all have a say. Why should the
Masters pattern have more maneuvers and take longer than any other pattern? You
cannot say there is no impact on other flyers and their judging duties when
Masters is often the largest class and use more than their share of the contest
time as well. You <i><span style='font-style:italic'>could</span></i> say that
the "content" of each class pattern should be up to those with
"skin" in the game.<br>
<br>
There was nothing in the survey that stated "Vote only for the patterns in
the class you are flying or may fly next year". Nor do I believe that such
a statement should be added.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 4:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dave, </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>After writing my reply to you I got to thinking again and I don't agree
with your assessment. This is about selecting a sequence that matter to
the people that fly it not to the people that judge it or to the people that
may have to wait around to fly again because of a large Masters turnout.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Flame away...</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-Derek</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave Burton <<a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>> wrote:</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Derek,</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I really object to your definition of
who has “Skin in the game” - <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>We all do
if we pay our dues and attend contest</span></b>.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The “skin” is the impact of a long vs.
short sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be flying Masters in the
next two years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a contest, and every other
flyer in all the other class who have to wait until the typically large Masters
class finishes whatever sequence they fly.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So, whether I fly Masters in the next
two years or not, I intend to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I
expect him to give my view the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters”
flyers or others. </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is an issue that should not be
decided by only “Masters” flyers.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Dave Burton</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Over 10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed its work on
the new sequences. These were posted on the NSRCA website for review and
comment - see below:</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html"
target="_blank">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a></span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Included in all this material was a draft document that outlined the
process on how sequences are developed, tested and approved and the
makeup/content of the sequences based on the class it is meant to serve.
This document is titled "NSRCA Procedures, Standards and Guidelines
for AMA R/C Precision Aerobatics Sequence Development". A mouthful,
but it does outline a lot of information. It details the charter for the
Sequence Committee, sequence development standards and guidelines for all
classes, catalog of maneuvers for all classes and the process that the NSRCA
will follow in designing, testing and approving changes to sequences, or for
proposed sequences. These sequence development standards and guidelines
have been in place for about 4 years now and have been used very successfully
to build the current set of sequences that everyone is flying today, in
addition to the prior Masters sequence (and the new one as well).</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Overall we received positive comments on the proposed sequences from
Sportsman through Masters. As you know, there were two sequences
developed for Masters, a long sequence using the standard 23 maneuver count and
a short sequence using 19 maneuvers. In the time since we posted the
sequences, some informal surveys were also made on the NSRCA website as well as
on RCU asking for a preference of either the short or long Masters schedule.
The overwhelming majority of respondents chose the short sequence. However,
these surveys were a little flawed in that we didn't really know who was voting
for them - were they all judges/pilots who voted because they didn't want to
judge a long sequence, or were they really current and/or future Masters pilots
that really did want to fly a shorter sequence.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Since the release of the proposed schedules, and some post Nats
comments, the sequence committee has been hard at work making some tweaks to
the short schedule with a view to increasing the difficulty level of the short
Masters sequence to bring it into line with the long Masters sequence and also
to ensure that we weren't lowering the bar in difficulty by introducing a
shorter sequence. Bear in mind that the short sequence is only 19
maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so raising the difficulty level is a challenge
if one is to avoid using some existing F3A type maneuvers, or "airplane
killers", and to only use maneuvers that match the philosophy that we've
embraced for a number of years. Since we've never developed a short
Masters sequence, we need to make sure we get it right and that it not only
provides a challenge to those that fly it but that it still provides a somewhat
relatively higher jump for those pilots that are moving up from Advanced.
We realize that creating a perfect schedule is not going to happen - we
won't be able to please every pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be
able to please some former F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and
isn't enough of a challenge. There has to be a balance. The
Sequence Committee came up with some good positive changes and these are being
vetted/tested as I write this. They've received extremely positive
feedback from everyone that has either flown the newer short sequence on a
simulator or using their pattern plane at the field. By the end of this
weekend we'll know for sure whether it is a keeper or not.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style='margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>When we do post the revised sequence I would like all of you that have
"skin in this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot or will
be moving to Masters in the next year or two, to please contact your NSRCA
District VP and let them know what your preference is - short or long sequence.
The reason they need to know is that the NSRCA board will vote in the
next couple of weeks to approve all the proposed sequences and also to select
which sequence the Masters class will be flying in 2011/2012.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave Lockhart,
Verne Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis. They've
put in an extraordinary amount of work on these sequences and documentation and
deserve huge kudos from everyone! Thanks guys - your work is very much
appreciated!</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>We've also created a Sequence Committee section on the NSRCA website
which will have more information soon. It will contain the updated draft
documentation and all the proposed sequences in one location. You can get
to the new section from the main menu - just look for Sequence Committee - it
is near the bottom of the menu.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10
02:34:00</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
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<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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<div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_4_9e5476c6-d3e1-481b-8930-647fb0d47131"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </span></font></tt><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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