Jon,<div><br></div><div>Based on the preliminary votes I think the removal of the schedules from the rule book will pass (I'll keep my fingers crossed), which essentially means that we could possibly wait until 12/31/2010 before the NSRCA board announces the new schedules for 2011/2012. That won't happen (waiting until 12/31) since it isn't fair and doesn't make sense. I've revised the guide which includes a defined timeline and I'm just waiting on some minor adjustments to be made before I have the board review and approve the guide. Here is the draft timeline that is in the revised guide:</div>
<div><br></div><div><p class="NSRCAStyle1"><a name="_Toc272919817"></a><a name="_Toc272909297"><span style="mso-bookmark:_Toc272919817"><span style="mso-list:
Ignore">1.0<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span>Sequence Submittal Process</span></a> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
following is the recommended timeline for the development and submission of new
sequences. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Sequence development should
always start in the year prior to when the sequence is to be replaced.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>For example, if the Masters sequence (2 year
lifecycle) is to be replaced in 2013 (X) then work on the development of a new
sequence should start in 2011 (X – 2).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>What follows is a timeline showing the activity (task) and the month the
activity should start:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt">TASK</span></u><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><span style="mso-tab-count:8"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><u>TIMELINE</u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Assign and approve Committee
Chairperson<span style="mso-tab-count:3"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>October - year X – 2</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Committee Chairperson
recruits Committee Membership<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>October – year X - 2</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">BoD approves Committee
Membership<span style="mso-tab-count:2"> </span><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>November – year X - 2</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Establish development schedule<span style="mso-tab-count:4"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>December – year X - 2</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Review design
criteria/receive BoD approval for changes<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>December – year X - 2</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Develop preliminary changes/sequences
and flight test<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>January through March – year X - 1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Publish for public comment on
NSRCA website/K-Factor<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>April through May – year X - 1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Finalize changes/sequence
selection based on comments<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>June through August – year X - 1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Submit proposed
changes/sequences to BoD for approval<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>September – year X - 1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Publish approved sequences on
NSRCA website/K-Factor<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>October – year X -1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">New sequences in use<span style="mso-tab-count:6"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>January – year X</span></p>
<div><br></div><div>Hopefully this answers your question.</div><div><br></div><div>-Derek</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Jon Lowe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">De<span style="font-size:small">rek,</span>
<div><span style="font-size:small">When, exactly, do the District VP's vote on this? A "couple of weeks" doesn't mean much to me. When, exactly, do we get to see the "new and improved" masters sequences? Why aren't they posted now? Why do we have to wait until after "the end of the weekend"? It would appear that they would want as much feedback as they can get, especially at this late date.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"> When is the schedule for final approval and announcement of the new sequences going to be added to the Sequence development guide? There is a schedule of sorts in there, but it doesn't state when final sequences will be announced. You asked this at the NSRCA Board Meeting this year, and I asked this shortly after the Nats, and got blown off, here:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"><a href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9899988" target="_blank">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9899988</a></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small">So I'm asking again since the guide hasn't been revised in this area.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small">Since the AMA contest board final vote isn't due to be announced until 30 Sep (ballots were only due to the AMA on 15 Sep), are you sure we will be able to revise our own sequences? Do you have advanced info from the AMA that it passed?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial">Jon Lowe</span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><div class="im">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Derek Koopowitz <<a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:10 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>Pattern length for each class has been a design criteria for a number of years and it has been used very successfully to build current and past sequences. Since we are using each of the classes as a building block to the next higher class, it makes sense to use each sequence to work on and build flying skills. One can only do so much with maneuvers in a class before it becomes too intense for the pilot and wears them out (in the lower classes) - that's why Sportsman has box entry/exit breaks during the sequence. BTW, the rules also state that a CD can have Sportsman fly their sequence back-to-back if they'd like to fly a little longer.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM, John Gayer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net" target="_blank">jgghome@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Derek,<br>
<br>
When it comes to the pattern length we should all have a say. Why
should the Masters pattern have more maneuvers and take longer than
any other pattern? You cannot say there is no impact on other flyers
and their judging duties when Masters is often the largest class and
use more than their share of the contest time as well. You <i>could</i>
say that the "content" of each class pattern should be up to those
with "skin" in the game.<br>
<br>
There was nothing in the survey that stated "Vote only for the
patterns in the class you are flying or may fly next year". Nor do I
believe that such a statement should be added.<br>
<font color="#888888">
<br>
John</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 9/22/2010 4:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Dave,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After writing my reply to you I got to thinking again and I
don't agree with your assessment. This is about selecting a
sequence that matter to the people that fly it not to the people
that judge it or to the people that may have to wait around to
fly again because of a large Masters turnout.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Flame away...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Derek</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave
Burton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" target="_blank">burtona@atmc.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Derek,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I really object to your
definition of who has “Skin in the
game” - <b>We all do if we pay our dues and attend
contest</b>.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">The “skin” is the impact
of a long vs. short
sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be
flying Masters in the next
two years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a
contest, and every other flyer
in all the other class who have to wait until the
typically large Masters class
finishes whatever sequence they fly.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">So, whether I fly Masters
in the next two years or not, I intend
to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I
expect him to give my view
the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters”
flyers or
others. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">This is an issue that
should not be decided by only “Masters”
flyers.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Dave Burton</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></div>
<div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek
Koopowitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion</span></div>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA
sequences for 2011 and beyond</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Over 10 months ago the NSRCA
Sequence Committee completed
its work on the new sequences. These were posted on
the NSRCA website for
review and comment - see below:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html" target="_blank">http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html</a></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Included in all this material
was a draft document that
outlined the process on how sequences are
developed, tested and approved and
the makeup/content of the sequences based on the
class it is meant to serve.
This document is titled "NSRCA Procedures,
Standards and Guidelines
for AMA R/C Precision Aerobatics Sequence
Development". A mouthful,
but it does outline a lot of information. It
details the charter for the
Sequence Committee, sequence development
standards and guidelines for all
classes, catalog of maneuvers for all classes
and the process that the NSRCA
will follow in designing, testing and approving
changes to sequences, or for
proposed sequences. These sequence development
standards and guidelines
have been in place for about 4 years now and
have been used very successfully
to build the current set of sequences that
everyone is flying today, in
addition to the prior Masters sequence (and the
new one as well).</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Overall we received positive
comments on the proposed
sequences from Sportsman through Masters. As
you know, there were two
sequences developed for Masters, a long sequence
using the standard 23 maneuver
count and a short sequence using 19 maneuvers.
In the time since we
posted the sequences, some informal surveys were
also made on the NSRCA website
as well as on RCU asking for a preference of
either the short or long Masters
schedule. The overwhelming majority of
respondents chose the short
sequence. However, these surveys were a little
flawed in that we didn't
really know who was voting for them - were they
all judges/pilots who voted
because they didn't want to judge a long
sequence, or were they really current
and/or future Masters pilots that really did
want to fly a shorter sequence.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Since the release of the
proposed schedules, and some post
Nats comments, the sequence committee has been
hard at work making some tweaks
to the short schedule with a view to increasing
the difficulty level of the
short Masters sequence to bring it into line
with the long Masters sequence and
also to ensure that we weren't lowering the bar
in difficulty by introducing a
shorter sequence. Bear in mind that the short
sequence is only 19
maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so raising the
difficulty level is a challenge
if one is to avoid using some existing F3A type
maneuvers, or "airplane
killers", and to only use maneuvers that match
the philosophy that we've
embraced for a number of years. Since we've
never developed a short
Masters sequence, we need to make sure we get it
right and that it not only
provides a challenge to those that fly it but
that it still provides a somewhat
relatively higher jump for those pilots that are
moving up from Advanced.
We realize that creating a perfect schedule is
not going to happen - we
won't be able to please every pilot that moves
up from Advanced, nor will we be
able to please some former F3A pilots that think
the schedule is too easy and
isn't enough of a challenge. There has to be a
balance. The
Sequence Committee came up with some good
positive changes and these are being
vetted/tested as I write this. They've received
extremely positive
feedback from everyone that has either flown the
newer short sequence on a
simulator or using their pattern plane at the
field. By the end of this
weekend we'll know for sure whether it is a
keeper or not.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">When we do post the revised
sequence I would like all of you
that have "skin in this game", meaning you are a
current Masters
pilot or will be moving to Masters in the next
year or two, to please contact
your NSRCA District VP and let them know what
your preference is - short or
long sequence. The reason they need to know is
that the NSRCA board will
vote in the next couple of weeks to approve all
the proposed sequences and also
to select which sequence the Masters class will
be flying in 2011/2012.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">The Sequence Committee is
comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave
Lockhart, Verne Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie
Stafford, and Richard Lewis.
They've put in an extraordinary amount of work
on these sequences and
documentation and deserve huge kudos from
everyone! Thanks guys - your
work is very much appreciated!</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">We've also created a Sequence
Committee section on the NSRCA
website which will have more information soon.
It will contain the
updated draft documentation and all the proposed
sequences in one location.
You can get to the new section from the main
menu - just look for
Sequence Committee - it is near the bottom of
the menu.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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