<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Make sure you get the WHOLE URL. The link in the email I got didn't capture the whole thing.</span>
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<div style="clear:both"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Jon Lowe</font></font></div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dave Burton <burtona@atmc.net><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 5:05 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final<br>
<br>
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>I guess I don't have a top secret clearance either. I can't get to the
documents section. Says I am not permitted to enter.
-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 5:48 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final
Matt earlier said to go to the NSRCA website and find the methodology
in the judging section. Here is the url:
<a href="http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/judgeevaluation/" target="_blank">http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/judgeevaluation/</a>
Judge_Evaluation_Method.pdf
You can read about it there and ask questions about anything which is
unclear.
Ron Van Putte
On Sep 18, 2010, at 3:28 PM, John Gayer wrote:
> Matt,
>
> What are you using for an algorithm to get these numbers? Based on
> the fact that they are all below 1000, I assume that a judge who is
> 10% higher than the average gets the same score as one who is 10%
> low. I suggest that adding a plus or minus to the judge score would
> identify which side of the curve a particular judge is on. Also,
> does a 900 imply that the judge has a 10% deviation from the norm?
> Thus if the average score is 8.0, then a judge with a 900 is giving
> a score of 7.2 or 8.8? That would indicate a 750 judge is giving
> sixes when the rest of the world is giving eights.
>
> John
>
> On 9/18/2010 12:17 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
>>
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>> All of this stuff was done while I was away from pattern for a few
>> years, so help me understand how this information is used. What do
>> high ranking judges get out of the system besides an attaboy?
>>
>> How is it used by CDs, event directors, pilots, etc?
>>
>> Is anyone paying attention to it?
>>
>> Who/how provides input into the system?
>>
>> Thanks, Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</a>
>> <a href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 2:07 PM
>> To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>>
>>
>> That is correct...each of the scores for each judge represents how
>> that judge performed the job (of judging) compared to the other
>> judges. You can read the explenation of how the system works in
>> the NSRCA website under the Judging section.
>>
>>
>>
>> Scoring a 900 or higher is a big deal in this system. It means
>> that these judges placed each of the pilots very close to where
>> the pilots ended up PLUS scored each of the pilots with minimal
>> deviation from the pilots average score, ie- the score the pilot
>> received for his round. Often, a judge scores well in one of the
>> two categories but very seldon does a judge score well in both.
>>
>>
>>
>> The program does not look at each individual maneuver score; it
>> looks at the total raw score. Formulas could be created to look at
>> each maneuver but we decided (the Judge Ranking team) not to do it
>> that way. In our view it would have been unecessarily complex. I
>> seriously doubt that a more sophisticated program would produce a
>> more accurate result.
>>
>>
>>
>> The "throwaways" Ron is talking about are Judge scores that are
>> not high enough to be counted in overall rankings. Only the best 8
>> scores over a span of 5 years I believe, count in ranking the Judges
>>
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>>
>> MattK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ron Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</a>>
>> To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
>> Sent: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 9:13 am
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final
>>
>> The ranking system is not perfect.
>>
>> Sure we'd like a larger sample size, but I don't know anywhere
>> that has more than five judges.
>>
>> Second, a judge's score is dependent on the other judges. If a
>> judge does a good job in a group of good judges, his scores will
>> be high. However, if a judge does just as well in a group of less
>> qualified judges, his scores will be lower. That's why judges have
>> "throwaways" in the overall judge rankings.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Jon Lowe wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks Ron. I guess the two columns are from the two rounds we >
>> judged in 2009. I think the inconsistency shown is representative
>> > of the conditions in which my group was judging. 20-25 mph
>> winds, > colder than a .... And not to be disrespectful to the
>> flyers that > day under very difficult conditions, but the flying
>> was also all > over the map; I remember seeing some 8.5's or 9's,
>> followed by a > series of 5's and 6's. Clearly shows the need for
>> a larger sample > size, but I'm not sure we will get it, using
>> only judging from Nats > finals. I did not judge Masters finals
>> this year (was supposed to > do FAI, but got rained out).
>> >
>> > Jon Lowe
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Ron Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</a>>
>> > To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
>> > Sent: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 8:32 am
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final
>> >
>> > Perhaps it's time to reprint an explanation of the NSRCA judge >
>> ranking system. Judges are ranked based on how they compared in >
>> scoring pilots relative to the judging group they were in and in >
>> their relative placing of all pilots, also compared to the judging
>> > group they were in. A perfect score of 1000 means that a judge >
>> agreed with the scores and placins of the judging group.
>> >
>> > Ron Van Putte
>> >
>> > On Sep 17, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Jon Lowe wrote:
>> >
>> > > I have no clue what is being presented here. What does this mean?
>> > >
>> > > Jon Lowe
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a>
>> > > To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
>> > > Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:45 pm
>> > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final
>> > >
>> > > Judge Rankings from 2009 Masters Final. Belated information
>> for > > inquiring minds; This will be on the NSRCA website at some
>> point, > > as I complete the assessment:
>> > >
>> > > Judge: Scores
>> > > R Lewis 879.0 875.2
>> > > G Miller 824.3 804.2
>> > > J Lowe 720.8 861.4
>> > > T Romano 778.9 946.0
>> > > M Hunt 757.1 769.8
>> > > B Clemmons 903.8 785.1
>> > > J Dunnaway 783.7 816.8
>> > > J Lechowski 787.3 843.1
>> > > RVP 877.2 781.3
>> > > T Terrenoiser 884.6 866.9
>> > >
>> > > Note: First 5 judges judged rounds 1 and 2; the last 5, rounds
>> 3 > and 4
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > > MattK
>> > >
>> > > =
>> > > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-
>> discussion > > mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
>> http://> > lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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>> >
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</tt></pre>
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