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Matt,<br>
<br>
What are you using for an algorithm to get these numbers? Based on
the fact that they are all below 1000, I assume that a judge who is
10% higher than the average gets the same score as one who is 10%
low. I suggest that adding a plus or minus to the judge score would
identify which side of the curve a particular judge is on. Also,
does a 900 imply that the judge has a 10% deviation from the norm?
Thus if the average score is 8.0, then a judge with a 900 is giving
a score of 7.2 or 8.8? That would indicate a 750 judge is giving
sixes when the rest of the world is giving eights.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 9/18/2010 12:17 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">All of this stuff was done while I was away from
pattern for a
few years, so help me understand how this information is
used. What do high
ranking judges get out of the system besides an attaboy?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">How is it used by CDs, event directors, pilots,
etc?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Is anyone paying attention to it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Who/how provides input into the system?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Thanks, Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt medium
medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181,
196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding:
3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 18, 2010 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009
Masters Final<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">Jon,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">That is correct...each of the scores for
each
judge represents how that judge performed the job (of
judging) compared to
the other judges. You can read the explenation of how the
system works in the
NSRCA website under the Judging section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">Scoring a 900 or higher is a big deal in
this system. It means
that these judges placed each of the pilots very close to
where the pilots
ended up PLUS scored each of the pilots with minimal
deviation from the pilots
average score, ie- the score the pilot received for his
round. Often, a judge
scores well in one of the two categories but very seldon
does a judge score
well in both. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">The program does not look at each
individual maneuver score; it
looks at the total raw score. Formulas could be created to
look at each
maneuver but we decided (the Judge Ranking team) not to do
it that way. In
our view it would have been unecessarily complex. I
seriously doubt
that a more sophisticated program would produce a more
accurate result.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">The "throwaways" Ron is talking about are
Judge scores
that are not high enough to be counted in overall
rankings. Only the best 8
scores over a span of 5 years I believe, count in ranking
the Judges<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;">MattK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Ron Van Putte <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net"><vanputte@cox.net></a><br>
To: General pattern discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
Sent: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 9:13 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009 Masters Final<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_39e9d280-33a4-4c90-aefa-bb7eaeb326b0">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: none repeat scroll 0%
0% white;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: black;">The
ranking system is not
perfect. <br>
<br>
Sure we'd like a larger sample size, but I don't know
anywhere that has more
than five judges. <br>
<br>
Second, a judge's score is dependent on the other judges.
If a judge does a
good job in a group of good judges, his scores will be
high. However, if a
judge does just as well in a group of less qualified
judges, his scores will be
lower. That's why judges have "throwaways" in the overall
judge
rankings. <br>
<br>
Ron <br>
<br>
On Sep 18, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Jon Lowe wrote: <br>
<br>
> Thanks Ron. I guess the two columns are from the two
rounds we > judged
in 2009. I think the inconsistency shown is representative
> of the
conditions in which my group was judging. 20-25 mph winds,
> colder than a
.... And not to be disrespectful to the flyers that >
day under very
difficult conditions, but the flying was also all >
over the map; I remember
seeing some 8.5's or 9's, followed by a > series of 5's
and 6's. Clearly
shows the need for a larger sample > size, but I'm not
sure we will get it,
using only judging from Nats > finals. I did not judge
Masters finals this
year (was supposed to > do FAI, but got rained out). <br>
> <br>
> Jon Lowe <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: Ron Van Putte <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</a>> <br>
> To: General pattern discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 8:32 am <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009
Masters Final <br>
> <br>
> Perhaps it's time to reprint an explanation of the
NSRCA judge >
ranking system. Judges are ranked based on how they
compared in > scoring
pilots relative to the judging group they were in and in
> their relative
placing of all pilots, also compared to the judging >
group they were in. A
perfect score of 1000 means that a judge > agreed with
the scores and
placins of the judging group. <br>
> <br>
> Ron Van Putte <br>
> <br>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Jon Lowe wrote: <br>
> <br>
> > I have no clue what is being presented here.
What does this
mean? <br>
> > <br>
> > Jon Lowe <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > -----Original Message----- <br>
> > From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> <br>
> > To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br>
> > Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:45 pm <br>
> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judge Rank, 2009
Masters Final <br>
> > <br>
> > Judge Rankings from 2009 Masters Final. Belated
information for >
> inquiring minds; This will be on the NSRCA website at
some point, >
> as I complete the assessment: <br>
> > <br>
> > Judge: Scores <br>
> > R Lewis 879.0 875.2 <br>
> > G Miller 824.3 804.2 <br>
> > J Lowe 720.8 861.4 <br>
> > T Romano 778.9 946.0 <br>
> > M Hunt 757.1 769.8 <br>
> > B Clemmons 903.8 785.1 <br>
> > J Dunnaway 783.7 816.8 <br>
> > J Lechowski 787.3 843.1 <br>
> > RVP 877.2 781.3 <br>
> > T Terrenoiser 884.6 866.9 <br>
> > <br>
> > Note: First 5 judges judged rounds 1 and 2; the
last 5, rounds 3 >
and 4 <br>
> > <br>
> > Regards, <br>
> > <br>
> > MattK <br>
> > <br>
> > = <br>
> > _______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion >
> mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://">http://</a>> >
lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
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