<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'>
<div><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT>I agree with Vince and Ed below. I fly intermediate and I have an early model Shinden and am building a Black Magic V3. I am also mentoring a 13 year old flying a Temptation. His mother was looking for a plane that would get him thru Intermediate and Advanced so she just bought him a full house Valiant. If a rules change was put in place for Intermediate and Advanced that would take effect in 2012, we would both be forced to quit flying pattern or replace the planes. I agree that it would be nice if we could find a way to reduce/control costs to some degree in Sportsman and Intermediate. Perhaps, as mentioned previously, a weight limit on Sportsman and Intermediate or possibly a dimensional limit on these two classes. Might consider 8 pounds for Sportsman and 10 pounds for Intermediate and the current limits on Advanced. An 8 pound limit would allow planes like the Focus Sport, Osiris, some of the Seb Art planes and others in the 62" to 65" wingspan or so size class in Sportsman and 10 pounds on Intermediate would allow some of the older 1.20 or 1.40 size planes (some of the planes that were flying just prior to turnaround, like SL-1 or similar sized planes). I would also agree that if we reduce the size of the planes for the Sportsm and and Intermediate classes we should not penalize them for flying a smaller plane and we might also consider allowing them for fly closer in (perhaps 100 meters or so)without penalty</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just M2C</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ed Valls <br>
<br>
</div>
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<div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ORLANDO FRETS <ojfrets@earthlink.net><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2010 9:38 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris<br>
<br>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id=AOLMsgPart_0_ed4f57e1-b176-4f89-b636-cd16a427312e><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>I tend to agree. However, we are creatures of gadgets and want (not need)
the latest and greatest and what the big guys use. Typical in all sports.
Orlando Frets
-----Original Message-----
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Vicente
"Vince" Bortone
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:10 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris
I agree. There is an Intermediate pilot flying my old Focus I. It is nice
to see that plane in the air again.
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed White" <<A href="mailto:edvwhite@yahoo.com">edvwhite@yahoo.com</A>>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2010 8:46:12 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris
I would be tempted to go even further and limit to Sportsman. We've got a
club member who's been slowly edging his way into pattern for several years.
This year he is flying an Icepoint with a smaller 2-stroke with standard
muffler (not a 1.60) in intermediate. I would bet he has no more money in
this airplane than would be put into an electric 110 size. Put these limits
on him and it will blow him right out of pattern.
And I don't think this is unusual. At our contest 2 weeks ago we had 4
intermediate flyers. Only one of them would not need to go get a new
airplane if a limit like this was imposed. Some how we've got to do a
better job of getting the word out that you don't need a modern 2m plane to
be competitive. The one intermediate who would not have to get a new
airplane under the proposed limits came in first.
I understand and support the desire to reduce the entry cost for brand new
pattern flyers. But I'd like to see us do it without forcing existing
sportsman and intermediate pilots to go buy new equipment to stay in
pattern.
Ed
________________________________
From: Dave Burton <<A href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A>>
To: General pattern discussion <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 3:28:45 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris
I think this is a good idea also, but I'd limit it to Sportsman and
Intermediate. By the time someone moves up or down to Advanced they are
usually pretty serious about pattern and would want to fly the best plane
they could afford. My $0.02
Dave Burton
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Dr Mike
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 4:09 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris
I think this is great. Congratulations a number of ways, your son's
birthday, the discovery of a good plane and the fun you are both having.
This leads me to something I have been thinking about for a while and I
believe it is something we should pursue.
It is not news that our event is starved for youngsters to participate with
us. It is such a shame because this is such a wonderful, fun, family
oriented, very educational, exciting hobby, sport.
I believe what is killing it is the perception you gotta have a $4000-$5000
2 meter plane to compete. As you know, the best pilot wins and he can beat
you with an ugly stik.
I believe we should change sportsman, intermediate, and advanced to a
limited size of 1.75x1.75 meters-max engine 110 4-stroke, 60 2-stroke and
equivalent electric. Other countries are doing this and I believe we should
do this also. It would cut the cost by 75% or so.
I am all up for this and would like to see support for this.
Thanks
Mike
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:02 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 3D Hobby Shop Osiris
Hey All,
I'm not normally one to "gush" over a new product but given all the talk
lately about getting new people into pattern, making weight, etc, I wanted
to relay the great experience I've just had with the new Osiris from 3D
Hobby Shop (no, I'm not affiliated with them in ANY way). Those in D4 are
aware that my 13 yr old son has recently joined me in flying pattern (Big
grin here.I've been waiting 13 years for this) and he's been competing a
little bit (2 contests) in sportsman with a 50" AJ Slick. Flying pretty
well but getting his butt handed to him in any sort of wind as the slick
only weighs about 2lbs and is really more of a 3D plane.
Anyhow, for his 14th birthday last week I bought him one of the new Osiris
62" pattern planes that are designed for a 5S pack. I figured this would be
perfect. He can use my older packs, and we can basically share batteries
which will further extend my investment in 5s packs.
The plane arrived last week and I have to say, has blown us away. The kit
is immaculate. It took 4 hrs from start to air to get it ready. EVERYTHING
is done. The wheels and pants are already mounted to the landing gear
struts.4 screws and you're done mounting the gear. The canopy is already
mounted. Control horns come pre-glued in AND everything is straight. The
only real "work" is mounting the stab which took about 30 minutes because
dad is anal about alignment. But the cut out was dead nuts on, and it
required zero shimming. After that, it was drop in your radio gear and go
fly. All of the hardware supplied was good quality ball links and pull
pull hardware. I didn't replace anything (which is extremely unusual for
me).
So all of that was a VERY pleasant surprise as I anticipated more than a few
evenings to get his new plane ready to fly.
Flying it was even a bigger surprise. For a 62" plane.basically equivalent
to a .60 sized glow plane (think Kaos 60) it was unbelievable. It's got the
design and moments of a current F3A plane. The side area is large, wing
area is moderate, with tapered tips Ala the Spark. I was able to trim the
plane completely in about 5 flights. The suggested CG was slightly tail
heavy for my liking, but after moving that forward slightly everything fell
into place. Mixing was moderate (less than 5% anywhere), and there was no
need for any difficult adjustments like wing incidents or motor offsets.
I then flew the FAI P pattern and F pattern without any difficulties through
the rolling figure M (other than my lack of piloting ability) as well as all
of the snaps in the F sequence. Amazing.
To hand this over to my son for the sportsman sequence seemed like a crime
(though he was growing rather tired of ME flying "HIS" airplane under the
guise of "I'm still trimming it".
All up, I'd say I have less than $700 in this airplane with
kit/motor/ESC/Servos, and less than 4 hrs on the ground from box to air. I
have not weighed it, but I'm guessing it's in the 6-7lbs range. I will be
bringing the plane to the RCCD contest in Detroit this weekend as well as my
son campaigning with it at the D4 Champs in Cinci next weekend if anyone
would like to see/fly it.
I really think we have a GREAT option for people wanting to try electric
pattern at almost any level. Is it an FAI plane?? No. But it flies like
one. Just doesn't have the size and presentation. But it's VERY VERY
capable in Sportsman and Intermediate, and will out fly most of the
competitors up through advanced.
I'm encouraged that we now have several great options. The Osiris, the Wind
S 110, and others for people to get started with, without spending a
fortune.
BTW- Equipment in the plane. Hacker A50-12S/ Castle Ice 100/ Airtronics
94761's (mini with 65oz/in of torque) on Aileron and elevators and a 94773
(Full size 110oz/in of torque) on Rudder.
Flies a good 7min on a 5000mah 5S pack.
-Mark
Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102
<A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A> | <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A>
<<A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>>
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