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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>that pig won the nats in fai have you ??</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jlachow@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">Joe
Lachowski</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Discussion List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:59
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Who in there right mind would want to fly a pig of a Focus
in Masters. Get real.<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:14:22 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight
difference<BR><BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">How
about an 11 lb 8 oz. electric Focus 2 flying in Masters class? How much more
would that cost?</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John
Pavlick<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hmm,
how about a biplane with 6000 mAh batteries. It will cost more because,
well, it has 2 wings not just 1. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
The “bigger” batteries will obviously cost more than what we’re using now. Not
too hard to figure this stuff out…</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John
Pavlick</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">http://www.idseng.com</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dave
Burton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 7:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General
pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight
difference</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Not
trying to debate Dave, only trying to understand.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
the 2M rule stays the same, and the noise limit stays the same, but the weight
limit is increased or eliminated, what specific components are going to
increase in cost as a result and why?</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What
will be the cost drivers?</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As
sure as you and others seem to be that cost will increase due to the weight
limit change, I’d like to have your thoughts on the specifics of what and
why.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave
Burton</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dave<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 1:48 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave
B,</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I’m
not going to debate whether your paraphrased quote is an answer or not……that
aspect is not relevant.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">“Always
has in the past” is nothing other than historical fact.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">“Always
will in the future” is a prediction based on what if scenarios from the past
are repeated.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
NSRCA archives have exhaustive detailed discussions on both, as well as the
results of multiple surveys for which the majority did not favor a weight
increase or elimination of the weight limit for all classes.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>Dave
L</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dave
Burton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 1:33 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General
pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight
difference</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So
Dave, Tell us exactly what is going to make the cost go up. </SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">“Always
has in the past and always will in the future” is not an answer.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dave<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 1:23 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">…nor
increasing cost yet again</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Derek
Koopowitz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 1:16 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Tony,</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>This issue has come up time and time again... they just
aren't interested in changing the way it is currently done, nor in increasing
the weight.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal>-Derek</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Tony <<A
href="mailto:tony@radiosouthrc.com">tony@radiosouthrc.com</A>> wrote:</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Derek:<BR>My
take on Mike’s point was that they should weigh models without the batteries
for the motor. I don’t think he was asking about increasing the
weight. I believe there are other FAI events where the batteries are
removed when the models are weighed, so this is not a new concept to
them.</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tony
Stillman, President</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Radio
South, Inc.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">139
Altama Connector, Box 322</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Brunswick,
GA 31525</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1-800-962-7802</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com/"
target=_blank>www.radiosouthrc.com</A></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Derek Koopowitz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010
12:37 PM</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:
weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Mike,</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>I've talked at length about the weight issue with the
other F3A representatives and there wasn't much support at all for increasing
the weight limits.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal>-Derek</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Dr Mike <<A
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A>>
wrote:</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I think
all of that is too complicated. As you are all aware, it is really FAI
rules that is the problem. I recommend we urge our FAI rep to change the
rule to weigh airplanes without batteries. This argument has been
presented before, but I think it needs to be pressed. Batteries are just
fuel. A fuel weight limit could be imposed. I fly IC and loaded
with fuel it is 12 lbs 4oz at least. All of this is old, old news, but
it should be pressed, I believe. </SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike
</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith Hoard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 23, 2010 9:35
AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal> Perhaps another
compromise would be to raise the weight limit to 11.5 or 12 lbs., then have a
weight penalty that starts at 11lbs and increases hyperbolically up to the max
weight. <BR><BR> It could start at 2% at 11lb 1oz., 5% at 11 lb., 2oz.,
7% at 11lb. 3oz., on up to 40% score reduction at 12 lbs.<BR><BR> This
rule wouldn't affect anyone at local contests nor guys who aren't in the hunt
for hardware at the Nats. The top guys at the Nats wouldn't have to worry
about being DQ'd for weight HOWEVER if you want to stay in the top you better
have a light airplane. . . or be able to fly 40% better than everyone else . .
</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Dave <<A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A>> wrote:</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tim,</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Yep…time will
tell. This topic has been a debate for many years….and the “cushion” is
the best idea/compromise I have seen since the weight became a limiting
factor.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>Dave</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Tim Taylor<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:29
PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Dave,</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>At this point we'll agree to disagree. The
"cushion rule" is a good thing and might just achieve what I want while
maintaining the spirit of the rules that you want.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Time will tell.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Lively discussion and debate brings out points
from all sides the other might not have thought of.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>I enjoy it and often learn from it.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Tim<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 8/22/10, <A
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">davel322@comcast.net</A> <I><<A
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">davel322@comcast.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">davel322@comcast.net</A> <<A
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">davel322@comcast.net</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference<BR>To: "General pattern
discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Sunday, August 22, 2010, 12:07 PM</P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Tim,</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I'm well aware of where
the rules changes came from (FAI), and how they were followed by AMA,
and it changes nothing with respect to my original point. When the
limits have increased, increased costs have followed without
exception.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Pattern planes are
quiet because we have a noise rule...even though it is not enforced
locally.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Pattern planes are
limited in cost because we have limits...and the most competitive are
the most costly - that will never change. Increase the
limits, and the costs for the most competitive setups will increase - it
always has, and it always will.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">The current proposal to
allow a "cushion" to the weight limit in the lower classes is I think a
good idea. For the FAI based designs (the vast majority), the
lightest and most expensive equipment will not have to be
used. For the AMA based designs (very few in number), planes
will still be designed to meet 11 lbs and therefore an increase in
size/weight/expense is very unlikely to happen.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Regards,</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Dave L</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tim
Taylor" <<A
href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com">timsautopro@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To:
"General pattern discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Friday, August 20, 2010 8:25:18 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
FW: weight difference</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Dave,</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>One minor detail that throws a wrench into
the history and today.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>All 4 of those changes that made huge
changes in our sport were from the top down.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> FAI made those changes and we have
what we have today.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>The change we're talking about only effects
the US in AMA classes, not FAI.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>There are no pattern kits currently being
designed and built in mass in the USA. Even if they were they'd
likely be designed by guys in FAI. They will NOT design an
airplane that cannot compete at the FAI level. It just wont
happen.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>What harm can it do if I build a Focus2 in
Elect and show up 1/2 pound over weight? </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>None.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>What harm will it do if an Advance flier
shows up with a 2 year old airplane bought from an FAI pilot and
he has heavier batteries or repairs have now made the airplane
over weight? </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>None.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Will you have a guy show up with a 50cc
2x2 3d monster from time to time? </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Yes, </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>does it matter?</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> No.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> He won't pass the noise test anyway.
:)</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Can any CD here honestly tell me that
they'll turn a pilot down at a contest (Besides the nats) because
he's 3 oz over weight?</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>I doubt it, </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Tim</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 8/20/10, Dave <I><<A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><BR>From: Dave
<<A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A>><BR>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference<BR>To: "'General
pattern discussion'" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:54 PM</P>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Just noticed
this didn’t make it to the list the first time……was too big with
all the RE:RE:RE:RE (trimmed now). And…I’m off to a
contest! </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">J</SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave</SPAN> <BR> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Dave [mailto:<A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 20, 2010 10:17 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BR><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This whole
discussion is one where history really does speak volumes –</SPAN>
<BR> <BR><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In
short, there has always been a limiting factor (whether size,
weight, power, noise). That limit has always been pushed by
the top level competitors, and the top level stuff is always the
most expensive, and it offers a competitive advantage over cheaper
setups. And the masses (certainly 90+% anyway) follow the
guys at the top.</SPAN> <BR> <BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In short, everytime a
limiting factor has been increased (for whatever reasons), the
size, cost, expense, etc has increased. Cheaper options are
available now, and they are not as competitive. Change the
rules, and cheaper options will still be available and still not
be as competitive as the new standard that will be achieved by the
top level competitors that push the new limits. In the last
20 or so years, I’ve seen this cycle about 4 times. There is
no magical rule or formula that will change this for open
competition…the cycle will repeat every time a limit is
raised.</SPAN> <BR> <BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN> <BR>
<BR><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave</SPAN>
<BR> <BR>
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<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=ecxMsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed Alt<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 20, 2010
1:55 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>I should have checked my
building noes first - it was actually 10 lbs 4 oz. But I'm
not a professional builder either. Point is, it can be done
within the existing rules. You just have to get past the
idea that it can't be done.<BR> </SPAN> <BR>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><BR>--
<BR><BR>Keith Hoard<BR>Collierville, TN<BR><A
href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</A></P></DIV></DIV>
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