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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Yeah--I can remember getting a reply to something I
thought important. The reply was simple and to the point:
"Nobody Cares." I cared, so that just confirms what Ron's been saying all
along: I'm actually a nobody!<G></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=timsautopro@yahoo.com href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com">Tim
Taylor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
difference</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>We can always ignore it, we've done that for years unless you're in
the top 3-5 at the Nats.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In this day and age of instant communication we no longer need
a Contest Board to decide what we do or not. With all due
respect to the CB we don't need you guys anymore, we can poll the
membership directly and set the rules. Far more representative that
way.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The only time I ever tried to talk to a CB member about a rules
proposal in person I got the old "I know better than you and I'm going
to do what I want so we don't need to discuss it." He
then refused to even talk about anything at that point. Left a very bad
taste I tell you.<BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tim<BR>--- On <B>Wed, 8/18/10, Dave Burton
<I><burtona@atmc.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Dave Burton <burtona@atmc.net><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR>To: "'General pattern
discussion'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date:
Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 7:53 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>The rules proposal to eliminate the weight limit
didn't make the first CB<BR>vote. Too bad
IMO!<BR>Dave<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Ron Hansen<BR>Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:35
PM<BR>To: 'General pattern discussion'<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR><BR>I'm concerned that these
new electric only planes that are designed to make<BR>weight won't
hold up to the normal wear and tear of an average intermediate<BR>or
advanced pilot or flying off of a rough grass runway. Is this a
valid<BR>concern? I think so but maybe I'm over reacting.
That is why I'm in favor<BR>of eliminating the weight limit
altogether. The proposal to slightly raise<BR>the weight limit
won't allow someone to fly an electric Focus II
for<BR>example.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of J N Hiller<BR>Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:17
PM<BR>To: General pattern discussion<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR><BR>I've been following this
with interest. E-power is looking better all the<BR>time and I
probably will make the change. I like to build prefer a
wood<BR>airplane. About how much total weight is in a suitable E-power
system or<BR>empty airframe ready for radio etc? Any numbers readily
available would be<BR>helpful in understanding the distribution of
weight.<BR>Thanks<BR>Jim Hiller<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]On
Behalf Of Dave<BR>Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:02 AM<BR>To:
'General pattern discussion'<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
difference<BR><BR>And to recall.....that is the Spark with custom
wings and stabs, which saves<BR>substantial weight? There are
very few unmodified kits available that are<BR>RTF electric at
10.25. There are some airframe examples for which glow
/<BR>electric are similar weight, but that is not the norm - not yet
anyway - my<BR>opinion.<BR><BR>My electric Bravo was 10 lbs even at
the 2009 NATs (only 4 oz more than the<BR>Vivat I flew in 2005) and I
would be scared of the structure if it were any<BR>lighter. Of
course it could be lighter still IF I went from 5000 to 4350<BR>lipos
(~6 oz) and ditched the dual RX batts and Vregs (~2 oz) and
used<BR>lighter ESC and wiring (~ 2 oz).<BR><BR>Point being....even
tho 10 lb electrics are possible, and becoming more<BR>common, it is
still pretty easy to build electrics at 11+ lbs without<BR>careful
planning and attention to detail. I think it will become
a<BR>non-issue soon enough.....even in Europe and Asia electrics are
coming on<BR>strong.....so the glow kits will become increasingly
scarce.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Dave<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark<BR>Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06
AM<BR>To: General pattern discussion<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR><BR>I would argue that you
can't "disregard" the airframe given that an all<BR>electric airframe
is much lighter.<BR><BR>My answer to the question? There is
almost no difference. I'm flying a<BR>full 2M plane
that weighs 10lbs 4oz with light batteries, 10lbs, 8oz with<BR>very
heavy batteries. My two Black Magics with glow
weighed 10lbs 6oz and<BR>10lbs 8oz RTF minus CDI (add approx 4oz for
that).<BR><BR>I believe we're just now seeing full electric designs
that are optimized for<BR>weight and are coming in
light. Prior to that, many of the designs
still<BR>had unnecessary structure as a legacy from Glow. I'm
pretty sure that<BR>evolution is not complete yet
either.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Mark Atwood<BR>Paragon Consulting, Inc.
| President<BR>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio,
44124<BR>Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax:
440.684.3102<BR><A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com"
ymailto="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>
| www.paragon-inc.com<BR><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<BR>Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:58
AM<BR>To: General pattern discussion<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR><BR>Tough question. Will
you insist on using 30C lipos, when 20C lipos<BR>are much
lighter? Do you plan on using a particular motor?
Motor<BR>weights vary substantially. Some ESCs are a lot heavier
than others.<BR><BR>My guess would be that the weight difference
between a complete<BR>electric-power system and a complete glow-power
system, disregarding<BR>the airplane, would be 10-16
ounces.<BR><BR>Ron<BR><BR>On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Dr Mike
wrote:<BR><BR>> Ok so I am going to ask the question again... in
your estimation<BR>> what is the<BR>> difference in weight
between the complete electric power system and<BR>> the<BR>>
complete glow system-disregarding the airplane?<BR>>
Mike<BR>><BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Ron<BR>> Van Putte<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17,
2010 8:30 AM<BR>> To: General pattern discussion<BR>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<BR>><BR>> Dave WAS
trying to show the difference between glow and
electric.<BR>><BR>> Generally, airplanes that started out as
glow-powered are heavier<BR>> than one for electric power, because
of the vibration. The<BR>> difference between the two
packages gets complicated. For glow, you<BR>> include
spinner, prop, engine, motor mount, ignition system, fuel<BR>>
tubing (and fittings), fuel tank and anything else which is<BR>>
exclusively for glow. For electric, you include spinner,
prop,<BR>> motor, motor mount, ESC, wiring, lipo batteries and
anything else<BR>> which is exclusively for electric. When
you add it up, the weight<BR>> differences can be pretty
dramatic. If you don't carefully select<BR>> all the
components, you can easily add an unneeded 4 ounces to an<BR>>
electric-powered airplane.<BR>><BR>> Ron<BR>><BR>> On Aug
17, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Dr Mike wrote:<BR>><BR>>> Thanks Dave,
I am referring only to the power packages,not the<BR>>> planes.
Those are what I am looking for, the difference between<BR>>>
glow and electric.<BR>>><BR>>>
Mike<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-<BR>>> <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Dave<BR>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:41
AM<BR>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<BR>>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
difference<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> 12 oz +/-4
oz.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Exact number
depends on a bunch of things -<BR>>><BR>>> - on the
electric side, which motor, motor mounting, ESC, lipo, RX<BR>>>
power system?<BR>>><BR>>> - was the plane originally built
lighter for electric, or with more<BR>>> beef for
glow?<BR>>><BR>>> - CDI / non CDI, type of mount, and what
type of ignition and RX<BR>>>
power?<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I can tell you
that a number of Prestige planes have been built<BR>>> with
various glow and electric power plants. For the most
part,<BR>>> the glow airframes are +4 oz to start with (the
added beef for glow<BR>>> vibration). Most of the glow
setups ended up at 9.5 lbs, +/- 4<BR>>> oz. Most of the
electrics ended up at 10.25 lbs, +/- 4
oz.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Regards,<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Dave<BR>>><BR>>> From: <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-<BR>>> <A
href="http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Dr Mike<BR>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:33
AM<BR>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<BR>>> Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight
difference<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Could
someone tell me the difference in weight between say a YS
1.7<BR>>> with muffler/tank,etc vs
electric?<BR>>><BR>>> Thanks<BR>>><BR>>>
Mike<BR>>><BR>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>
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