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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi Matt and
all, sorry I'm late. Mail wouldn't connect first thing this morning and I got
involved with a drawing revision in CAD.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I finally
got through the 50 or so posts this morning. I'm with you, 2 m is about all I
can accommodate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don't believe
weight is an advantage and going over 11 pounds is to be avoided. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As for
cost increase! I think it has more to do with performance requirements than
restricting rules. We live with an ever increasing need for more power and
increasing the weight limit would likely bring new more powerful and expensive power
systems. As someone else mentioned we chose to use or not use the latest and greatest
equipment, I know it won't help my flying much. I prefer the feel of a light airplane
would probably need to commit another $300-400 to pull an 11-pound airplane as
I would like. The $$ I'm currently willing to commit seams to restrict me to a
low 10 pound airplane if I continue to fly masters.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Don't get
me wrong I'm not against the ever increasing difficulty, I thoroughly enjoy the
challenge, I just need to get more creative and weight conscious in my building
or commit more $$. To keep cost in perspective, the cost increase to run a 170
is about equal to the cost for one out-of-town contest, I just never learned to
live with a 'YS'. Maybe the E-learning curve would be easier. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle89><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 19, 2010
6:46 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
weight difference</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>A 2
meter, 5 kilo plane is about my physical max. I physically have a difficult
time getting something larger in the minivan. At one time I dabbled in 1/3
scale IMAC but that proved too big and too heavy to haul around....just a plain
pain in tuchous (can I say 'tuchous' in this forum?)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Besides,
I find it great fun to figure out how to make a 2meter, 5 kilo plane come out
at 4.5 kilos....don't you?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MattK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ronlock@comcast.net<br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Thu, Aug 19, 2010 9:29 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_6aa72cc4-ff5a-4007-983c-3a6e3c761012">An excellent
discussion - especially the "unintended consequences"
part. Thanks for the diatribe Mark !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I think
we should be particularly sensitive to an increase in AMA weight
standard resulting (in a couple of years) in larger designs that take up
more room, cost more, and are no longer compatible with F3A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ron
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Dist
II CB <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Mark Atwood" <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:05:03 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>The challenge here is that rules of this nature, limiting
rules, be it in Pattern, Sailing, Stock car, whatever, are NOT in place to
restrict the average guy, they</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>re in place to restrict the
innovator. The guys that push the limit.</span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>In our sport, the </span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>“</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>average</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>”</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'> guy is stuck pushing the
limit because he</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s trying to copy and follow the
innovators. We all want the triple volumetric 2 meter bird because that</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s what Chip/Andrew/Quique and
company have pushed the boundary</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s too. A prophecy still makes
weight with nooooo problem. </span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>So the problem is simple. IF the rules change, it
clearly will help the average guy for a year or two. But then the
innovators will once again push the limits (they wouldn</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>t BE limits if no one was
pushing) and we would see new designs that the average guy can</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>t easily keep within the
rules.</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Bipes have not really caught on because they</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>re too difficult to make
weight with. Only the very best builders with very few limits on funding
for all the best and lightest equipment have made them work. Add a pound
and that will very likely change</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>to where all the top guys can make
them work, which will then push the average guy to try and make them
work. At the end of the day, all it adds is cost as we obsolete a
whole generation of viable aircraft to the dumpster. </span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>All one needs to do for confirmation on that is to review
the evolution of aircraft that occurred when we removed the LAST limiter</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>engine
displacement. Prior to that, weight was only a secondary limiter
because displacement restricted how big of a plane you could carry
around. Once removed, we had 10 years of growing aircraft and growing
engines. All costing more, NOT just because the new stuff was more
expensive</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:#1F497D'>that</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s just natural inflation and
evolution, but because the lifespan of a model was shorter. Designs
changed SIGNIFICANTLY every year.</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Finally, we</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>re back to a semi stable development
cycle which has aircraft like the Integral enjoying a 5-6 year run and is still
considered competitive even in FAI (I believe that</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s what Pete Collinson flew in
the finals this year). </span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>It</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>s not that we</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>re not listening</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'> We</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>re simply trying to avoid
mistakes from the past and make as sure as we can that the rule changes won</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>t have disastrous unintended
consequences. </span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>The rule change that is currently on the ballot provides a
sizeable variance for those in the lower classes to help accommodate aging
aircraft (which seem to gain weight magically), repaired used aircraft, and
beginning builders</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>.without changing the goal (and
therefore the designers goal) of maintaining a 5KG weight limit.</span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Ok</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>…</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>off my soapbox. Sorry for the
diatribe.</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>-Mark </span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>CB for Dist 3 </span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Mark Atwood</span></font></b><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></font></b><font
size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>|</span></font></b><font
size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black'> President</span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:black'>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite
130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:black'>Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 </span></font><b><font
size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>|</span></font></b><font
size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:black'> Fax: 440.684.3102</span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 color="#1351f3"
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1351F3'><a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
</span></font><b><font size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>|</span></font></b><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font size=1 color="#1351f3"
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1351F3'><a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dr Mike<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 19, 2010
8:42 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
weight difference</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Lance,</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Regarding the CB, I agree with you that those generalities
are anal comments. Most of the guys are giving freely of their time and
we are lucky to have them. On the weight issue, the 11 pounds is a bit
restricting. When that rule was made, planes had a 60 inch span, were 48
inches long and weighed 7 lbs. now they are volumetrically double or
triple so the wing loading is the same or lighter. Needs to go up at
least a pound or two.</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>Mike </span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Patterndude<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 18, 2010
8:35 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
weight difference</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have
a 10 lb e-symphony, there are low 10 lb Evo's and both these planes are super
rigid an tough. There are e planes that I'm afraid to touch because of
fragility and they cost more too. Point is, the consumer has choices and don't
need to fly a dangerous airframe. They choose to. Remember the glow Impacts
that lost their tail in a snap but hundreds were sold AFTER this fact was known
on this list? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>As a CB
guy I don't like being generalized against. I ask for input all the time. Even
call people and tell people where my head is at all the time without
preaching. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
On Aug 18, 2010, at 8:11 PM, Tim Taylor <<a
href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com">timsautopro@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=530 style='width:397.5pt;
mso-cellspacing:0in;margin-left:1.0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>We can always ignore it, we've done that
for years unless you're in the top 3-5 at the Nats.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>In this day and age of instant
communication we no longer need a Contest Board to decide what we do or
not. With all due respect to the CB we don't need you guys anymore, we
can poll the membership directly and set the rules. Far more representative
that way.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The only time I ever tried to talk to a
CB member about a rules proposal in person I got the old "I know better
than you and I'm going to do what I want so we don't need to discuss
it." He then refused to even talk about anything at that
point. Left a very bad taste I tell you.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Tim<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Wed, 8/18/10, Dave Burton <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 7:53 PM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The rules
proposal to eliminate the weight limit didn't make the first CB<br>
vote. Too bad IMO!<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ron Hansen<br>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:35 PM<br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
I'm concerned that these new electric only planes that are designed to make<br>
weight won't hold up to the normal wear and tear of an average intermediate<br>
or advanced pilot or flying off of a rough grass runway. Is this a
valid<br>
concern? I think so but maybe I'm over reacting. That is why I'm
in favor<br>
of eliminating the weight limit altogether. The proposal to slightly
raise<br>
the weight limit won't allow someone to fly an electric Focus II for<br>
example.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of J N Hiller<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:17 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
I've been following this with interest. E-power is looking better all the<br>
time and I probably will make the change. I like to build prefer a wood<br>
airplane. About how much total weight is in a suitable E-power system or<br>
empty airframe ready for radio etc? Any numbers readily available would be<br>
helpful in understanding the distribution of weight.<br>
Thanks<br>
Jim Hiller<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]On
Behalf Of Dave<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:02 AM<br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
And to recall.....that is the Spark with custom wings and stabs, which saves<br>
substantial weight? There are very few unmodified kits available that
are<br>
RTF electric at 10.25. There are some airframe examples for which glow
/<br>
electric are similar weight, but that is not the norm - not yet anyway - my<br>
opinion.<br>
<br>
My electric Bravo was 10 lbs even at the 2009 NATs (only 4 oz more than the<br>
Vivat I flew in 2005) and I would be scared of the structure if it were any<br>
lighter. Of course it could be lighter still IF I went from 5000 to
4350<br>
lipos (~6 oz) and ditched the dual RX batts and Vregs (~2 oz) and used<br>
lighter ESC and wiring (~ 2 oz).<br>
<br>
Point being....even tho 10 lb electrics are possible, and becoming more<br>
common, it is still pretty easy to build electrics at 11+ lbs without<br>
careful planning and attention to detail. I think it will become a<br>
non-issue soon enough.....even in Europe and Asia electrics are coming on<br>
strong.....so the glow kits will become increasingly scarce.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06 AM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
I would argue that you can't "disregard" the airframe given that an
all<br>
electric airframe is much lighter.<br>
<br>
My answer to the question? There is almost no
difference. I'm flying a<br>
full 2M plane that weighs 10lbs 4oz with light batteries, 10lbs, 8oz with<br>
very heavy batteries. My two Black Magics with glow weighed
10lbs 6oz and<br>
10lbs 8oz RTF minus CDI (add approx 4oz for that).<br>
<br>
I believe we're just now seeing full electric designs that are optimized for<br>
weight and are coming in light. Prior to that, many of the
designs still<br>
had unnecessary structure as a legacy from Glow. I'm pretty sure that<br>
evolution is not complete yet either.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark Atwood<br>
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<br>
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<br>
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102<br>
<a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
| <a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:58 AM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
Tough question. Will you insist on using 30C lipos, when 20C lipos<br>
are much lighter? Do you plan on using a particular motor? Motor<br>
weights vary substantially. Some ESCs are a lot heavier than others.<br>
<br>
My guess would be that the weight difference between a complete<br>
electric-power system and a complete glow-power system, disregarding<br>
the airplane, would be 10-16 ounces.<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Dr Mike wrote:<br>
<br>
> Ok so I am going to ask the question again... in your estimation<br>
> what is the<br>
> difference in weight between the complete electric power system and<br>
> the<br>
> complete glow system-disregarding the airplane?<br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ron<br>
> Van Putte<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:30 AM<br>
> To: General pattern discussion<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
><br>
> Dave WAS trying to show the difference between glow and electric.<br>
><br>
> Generally, airplanes that started out as glow-powered are heavier<br>
> than one for electric power, because of the vibration. The<br>
> difference between the two packages gets complicated. For glow,
you<br>
> include spinner, prop, engine, motor mount, ignition system, fuel<br>
> tubing (and fittings), fuel tank and anything else which is<br>
> exclusively for glow. For electric, you include spinner, prop,<br>
> motor, motor mount, ESC, wiring, lipo batteries and anything else<br>
> which is exclusively for electric. When you add it up, the weight<br>
> differences can be pretty dramatic. If you don't carefully select<br>
> all the components, you can easily add an unneeded 4 ounces to an<br>
> electric-powered airplane.<br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
> On Aug 17, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Dr Mike wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Thanks Dave, I am referring only to the power packages,not the<br>
>> planes. Those are what I am looking for, the difference between<br>
>> glow and electric.<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</a><br>
>> <a href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Dave<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:41 AM<br>
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 12 oz +/-4 oz.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Exact number depends on a bunch of things -<br>
>><br>
>> - on the electric side, which motor, motor mounting, ESC, lipo, RX<br>
>> power system?<br>
>><br>
>> - was the plane originally built lighter for electric, or with more<br>
>> beef for glow?<br>
>><br>
>> - CDI / non CDI, type of mount, and what type of ignition and RX<br>
>> power?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I can tell you that a number of Prestige planes have been built<br>
>> with various glow and electric power plants. For the most
part,<br>
>> the glow airframes are +4 oz to start with (the added beef for glow<br>
>> vibration). Most of the glow setups ended up at 9.5 lbs, +/- 4<br>
>> oz. Most of the electrics ended up at 10.25 lbs, +/- 4 oz.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Dave<br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</a><br>
>> <a href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Dr Mike<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:33 AM<br>
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Could someone tell me the difference in weight between say a YS 1.7<br>
>> with muffler/tank,etc vs electric?<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
><br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
><br>
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__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature<br>
database 5374 (20100817) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><br>
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No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a>
<br>
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3079 - Release Date: 08/18/10<br>
14:35:00<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<pre style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_6aa72cc4-ff5a-4007-983c-3a6e3c761012">_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </span></font></tt><font
size=1 color=black><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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