<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT face=arial color=black></FONT><SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>Jim,</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial">It seems that the airframe weight minus all equipment but otherwise ready, should be 5 lbs or less and preferably 4 1/2 lbs. The guys I fly with that fly e-power tell me the 400 sq inch wing panels come in at around 12-13 ozs RTF. The fuse is around 36 ozs including canopy and chin, landing gear is around 7 ozs and stab is around 7 ozs.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial">These are all within reach for a built up plane for glow or gas too</div>
<div>MattK<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: J N Hiller <jnhiller@earthlink.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2010 2:17 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference<br>
<br>
<br>
<div id=AOLMsgPart_0_e8f09c7f-bc7e-45b4-9e13-8421b2d2154e style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff"><br>
<br>
<PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>I've been following this with interest. E-power is looking better all the <br>
time and I probably will make the change. I like to build prefer a wood <br>
airplane. About how much total weight is in a suitable E-power system or <br>
empty airframe ready for radio etc? Any numbers readily available would be <br>
helpful in understanding the distribution of weight. <br>
Thanks <br>
Jim Hiller <br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> <br>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On</A> Behalf Of Dave <br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:02 AM <br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
<br>
And to recall.....that is the Spark with custom wings and stabs, which saves <br>
substantial weight? There are very few unmodified kits available that are <br>
RTF electric at 10.25. There are some airframe examples for which glow / <br>
electric are similar weight, but that is not the norm - not yet anyway - my <br>
opinion. <br>
<br>
My electric Bravo was 10 lbs even at the 2009 NATs (only 4 oz more than the <br>
Vivat I flew in 2005) and I would be scared of the structure if it were any <br>
lighter. Of course it could be lighter still IF I went from 5000 to 4350 <br>
lipos (~6 oz) and ditched the dual RX batts and Vregs (~2 oz) and used <br>
lighter ESC and wiring (~ 2 oz). <br>
<br>
Point being....even tho 10 lb electrics are possible, and becoming more <br>
common, it is still pretty easy to build electrics at 11+ lbs without <br>
careful planning and attention to detail. I think it will become a <br>
non-issue soon enough.....even in Europe and Asia electrics are coming on <br>
strong.....so the glow kits will become increasingly scarce. <br>
<br>
Regards, <br>
<br>
Dave <br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> <br>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark <br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06 AM <br>
To: General pattern discussion <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
<br>
I would argue that you can't "disregard" the airframe given that an all <br>
electric airframe is much lighter. <br>
<br>
My answer to the question? There is almost no difference. I'm flying a <br>
full 2M plane that weighs 10lbs 4oz with light batteries, 10lbs, 8oz with <br>
very heavy batteries. My two Black Magics with glow weighed 10lbs 6oz and <br>
10lbs 8oz RTF minus CDI (add approx 4oz for that). <br>
<br>
I believe we're just now seeing full electric designs that are optimized for <br>
weight and are coming in light. Prior to that, many of the designs still <br>
had unnecessary structure as a legacy from Glow. I'm pretty sure that <br>
evolution is not complete yet either. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark Atwood <br>
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President <br>
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 <br>
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Fax: 440.684.3102 <br>
<A href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A> | <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A> <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> <br>
[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte <br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:58 AM <br>
To: General pattern discussion <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
<br>
Tough question. Will you insist on using 30C lipos, when 20C lipos <br>
are much lighter? Do you plan on using a particular motor? Motor <br>
weights vary substantially. Some ESCs are a lot heavier than others. <br>
<br>
My guess would be that the weight difference between a complete <br>
electric-power system and a complete glow-power system, disregarding <br>
the airplane, would be 10-16 ounces. <br>
<br>
Ron <br>
<br>
On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Dr Mike wrote: <br>
<br>
> Ok so I am going to ask the question again... in your estimation <br>
> what is the <br>
> difference in weight between the complete electric power system and <br>
> the <br>
> complete glow system-disregarding the airplane? <br>
> Mike <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> <br>
> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Ron <br>
> Van Putte <br>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:30 AM <br>
> To: General pattern discussion <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
> <br>
> Dave WAS trying to show the difference between glow and electric. <br>
> <br>
> Generally, airplanes that started out as glow-powered are heavier <br>
> than one for electric power, because of the vibration. The <br>
> difference between the two packages gets complicated. For glow, you <br>
> include spinner, prop, engine, motor mount, ignition system, fuel <br>
> tubing (and fittings), fuel tank and anything else which is <br>
> exclusively for glow. For electric, you include spinner, prop, <br>
> motor, motor mount, ESC, wiring, lipo batteries and anything else <br>
> which is exclusively for electric. When you add it up, the weight <br>
> differences can be pretty dramatic. If you don't carefully select <br>
> all the components, you can easily add an unneeded 4 ounces to an <br>
> electric-powered airplane. <br>
> <br>
> Ron <br>
> <br>
> On Aug 17, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Dr Mike wrote: <br>
> <br>
>> Thanks Dave, I am referring only to the power packages,not the <br>
>> planes. Those are what I am looking for, the difference between <br>
>> glow and electric. <br>
>> <br>
>> Mike <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</A> <br>
>> <A href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Dave <br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:41 AM <br>
>> To: 'General pattern discussion' <br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> 12 oz +/-4 oz. <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Exact number depends on a bunch of things - <br>
>> <br>
>> - on the electric side, which motor, motor mounting, ESC, lipo, RX <br>
>> power system? <br>
>> <br>
>> - was the plane originally built lighter for electric, or with more <br>
>> beef for glow? <br>
>> <br>
>> - CDI / non CDI, type of mount, and what type of ignition and RX <br>
>> power? <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> I can tell you that a number of Prestige planes have been built <br>
>> with various glow and electric power plants. For the most part, <br>
>> the glow airframes are +4 oz to start with (the added beef for glow <br>
>> vibration). Most of the glow setups ended up at 9.5 lbs, +/- 4 <br>
>> oz. Most of the electrics ended up at 10.25 lbs, +/- 4 oz. <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Regards, <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Dave <br>
>> <br>
>> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-?">mailto:nsrca-</A> <br>
>> <A href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Dr Mike <br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:33 AM <br>
>> To: 'General pattern discussion' <br>
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Could someone tell me the difference in weight between say a YS 1.7 <br>
>> with muffler/tank,etc vs electric? <br>
>> <br>
>> Thanks <br>
>> <br>
>> Mike <br>
>> <br>
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