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<P><SPAN id=09e5ad40-9323-4de9-937a-60dca182242e>Bill,</SPAN></P>
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<P><SPAN>Base on my experience that is very easy to judge. Let's called when you go from "flick roll" or "autorotacion" condition to pure roll rotation. Let's forget about stalled or unstalled terms. Looks like those terms need to be erased from the snap description. </SPAN></P>
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<P><SPAN>We still have the break in pitch requirement before the snap that this is the one that is difficult to judge and perform. If the pilot try to do it will loose more points than just to the "flick roll" because in general most of us are not downgrading this element of the snap roll. </SPAN><BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR></SPAN><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze@bellsouth.net><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2010 7:30:57 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How can it return to an unstalled condition, when it was never stalled (per Jerry Budd) in the first palce?</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=drmikedds@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target=_blank>Dr Mike</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 05, 2010 8:04 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Yes that is correct, thanks Matt.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Mike </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B><A href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com" target=_blank>rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>; <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target=_blank>f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The F3A maneuver description may be inadequate and/or inaccurate, however that doesn't much matter for the judge who has the ardeous task of deciphering the snap. The description stands as is for this cycle and that's how the World's judges will judge them to the best of their ability next year. I urge all judges that judge F3A Semis and Finals at this year's Nats/Team Selection contest to take heed of FAI description (not AMA) and judge accordingly.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">In essence, Snaps should not zeroe'd as easily as they once were; far cry from where it was just a couple years ago. I believe that's the main reason the rule was written as indicated. </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mike's point I think deals with bringing the Snap back out of hibernation such that folks get a chance to re-read it and re-hash just in time for the Team Selection; fresh in one's mind so to speak</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Matt K</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Woodward, Jim R (US SSA) <jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>To: 'f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us' <f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us>; 'nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 4:27 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mike, I'm replying from a blackberry without the benefit of the rulebook in front of me. I thought these were called "Flick Rolls" now? I don't think any of us are equipped in the context of judging a 0.5 second manuever to determine if is "stalled" or "unstalled." I think Jerry Budd posted on the nsrca list the last dissertation on snaps, which from memory, pretty much proved the planes are not stalled.<BR><BR>Given you posted this, what do you want to see happen? Thx Jim W.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">: <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></U></A> <<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></U></A>> <BR><B>To</B>: 'General pattern discussion' <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></U></A>>; <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></U></A> <<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></U></A>> <BR><B>Sent</B>: Sun Jul 04 17:11:46 2010<BR><B>Subject</B>: [F3A-Discussion] snaps </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Given the abundance of snap maneuvers(7 maneuvers, 9 snaps) in the F-11 pattern, I feel compelled to give the exact description via the F3A rulebook:</P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>A snap-roll is a rapid autorotative roll where the model aircraft is in a stalled attitude, with a continuous high angle of attack.</P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Snap rolls have the same judging criteria as axial rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and constant flight path through the manoeuvre is concerned.</P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model aircraft is supposed to be I a stalled condition throughout the maneuver. If the stall/break does not occur and the model aircraft barrel-rolls around, the manoeuvre must be severely downgraded(more than 5 points). Similarly, axial rolls disguised as snap-rolls must be severely downgraded(more than 5 points)</P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and negative, and the same criteria apply. The attitude(positive or negative) is at the competitors discretion. If the model aircraft returns to an unstalled condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely downgraded using the 1 point/15 degree rule. </P></DIV>
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<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_4_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black">_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></U></A> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank><U><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></U></A> </SPAN></TT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></PRE></DIV></DIV>
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