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"...flight path.." is pretty much what the CG point is in the airplane is doing--the nose and tail should be wobbling in all directions around <STRONG>it</STRONG>.<BR>
RS<BR> <BR>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:06:13 -0700<BR>From: troy@troynewman.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps<BR><BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ken,</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It still has to stay on flight path</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal>“Snap rolls have the same judging criteria as axial rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and <B>constant flight</B> path through the manoeuvre is concerned.”</P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>As Matt suggested this is not a discussion on we think it should be, rather it is how the rule is written</P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Troy</P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Thompson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 05, 2010 7:13 AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Glad for that description...the way I originally understood it the plane was not supposed to deviate from the flight path...always said that was impossible...</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ken</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message ----- </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=drmikedds@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr Mike</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday, July 05, 2010 7:04 AM</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yes that is correct, thanks Matt.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B><A href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>; <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The F3A maneuver description may be inadequate and/or inaccurate, however that doesn't much matter for the judge who has the ardeous task of deciphering the snap. The description stands as is for this cycle and that's how the World's judges will judge them to the best of their ability next year. I urge all judges that judge F3A Semis and Finals at this year's Nats/Team Selection contest to take heed of FAI description (not AMA) and judge accordingly.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In essence, Snaps should not zeroe'd as easily as they once were; far cry from where it was just a couple years ago. I believe that's the main reason the rule was written as indicated. </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike's point I think deals with bringing the Snap back out of hibernation such that folks get a chance to re-read it and re-hash just in time for the Team Selection; fresh in one's mind so to speak</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Matt K</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Woodward, Jim R (US SSA) <jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>To: 'f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us' <f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us>; 'nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 4:27 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike, I'm replying from a blackberry without the benefit of the rulebook in front of me. I thought these were called "Flick Rolls" now? I don't think any of us are equipped in the context of judging a 0.5 second manuever to determine if is "stalled" or "unstalled." I think Jerry Budd posted on the nsrca list the last dissertation on snaps, which from memory, pretty much proved the planes are not stalled.<BR><BR>Given you posted this, what do you want to see happen? Thx Jim W.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">: <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></A> <<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></A>> <BR><B>To</B>: 'General pattern discussion' <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></A>>; <A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></A> <<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></A>> <BR><B>Sent</B>: Sun Jul 04 17:11:46 2010<BR><B>Subject</B>: [F3A-Discussion] snaps </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Given the abundance of snap maneuvers(7 maneuvers, 9 snaps) in the F-11 pattern, I feel compelled to give the exact description via the F3A rulebook:</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>A snap-roll is a rapid autorotative roll where the model aircraft is in a stalled attitude, with a continuous high angle of attack.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal> </P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Snap rolls have the same judging criteria as axial rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and constant flight path through the manoeuvre is concerned.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model aircraft is supposed to be I a stalled condition throughout the maneuver. If the stall/break does not occur and the model aircraft barrel-rolls around, the manoeuvre must be severely downgraded(more than 5 points). Similarly, axial rolls disguised as snap-rolls must be severely downgraded(more than 5 points)</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and negative, and the same criteria apply. The attitude(positive or negative) is at the competitors discretion. If the model aircraft returns to an unstalled condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely downgraded using the 1 point/15 degree rule. </P></DIV>
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<DIV id=ecxAOLMsgPart_4_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black">_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></A> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></A> </SPAN></TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></PRE></DIV>
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