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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>LMAO!!! I agree Dave...I was merely pointing out an
opinion that I've held for several years...but to agree, if it appears to be
right, we have to judge it as such...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 05, 2010 3:12 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ken,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In
theory…..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">IF the rotation in
pitch is rapid enough, the wing can be forced to stall before the plane
measurably departs from the flight path…….and then the rudder is applied to
control the direction of the snap……..which produces biased lift causing
rotation in roll axis (even a stalled wing produces some lift). Most of
our pattern models do not snap well without aileron (which further biases the
lift).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I think most of us
read the post on the NSRCA list by Jerry Budd which concluded the typical
modern pattern plane is not capable of snaps as described in the
rules…….however……the rules are what they are…..and making a maneuver look as
the rules describe is what the event is about.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Completely different
discussion point –<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">A judge observes a
square loop with 4 equal length sides, 4 equal radii corners, and no
deviations in distance from the flightline. Judge scores a 10. In
actuality, a $14 million GPS system shows the square had 4 different radii,
and was wider than tall. Nothing changes…..the judge saw a 10 per the
rulebook……and that is all that matters. The pilots that perform
maneuvers that appear to be error free as described by the book should get a
10…..whether the maneuver is actually correct is another
matter.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ken Thompson<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 05, 2010 3:57
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave et
all,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am having a bit of trouble
understanding how a plane in forward motion can with 100% certainty rotate on
it's CG...when the tail drops or raises, depending on Pos or Neg snap, the
nose goes the opposite direction. I just don't see how you can stop the CG
from moving at all, even the slightest bit would be a
downgrade.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">What I think would be very cool
is. we get a vid of what we all would consider as perfect a snap as we've ever
seen and generate a line as an overlay to represent the track...extend that
line forward of the planes position, then we will be able to see if there is
an actual deviation of flight track or
path...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I think I'm living in a dream
world...LOL!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ken</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.2pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday,
July 05, 2010 1:47 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">“….break and
separation from the flight path…..”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">and<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">“…….constant flight
path through the manoeuvre……”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Seems to me that
the definition is contradictory. A break could occur in the sense that
there is a deviation between attitude and track, but “separation from the
flight path” and “constant flight path” are contradictory. I would
hope it is clear enough that snaps absent of both pitch and yaw must be
downgraded.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I would point out
that a snap that finishes on the same heading, but shows a minor line
displacement has very little effect on the geometry of the maneuver.
Looking at a straight line of 400’……a snap in the middle of the line would
have to displace 50 feet (8 wingspans) vertically or horizontally to change
the line (from start to finish) by 15 degrees (1 point). I see no
other guidance in the rulebook applicable to how a line displacement should
be downgraded.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dr Mike<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 05, 2010 11:28
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Good point,
thanks <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Troy</st1:City></st1:place>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Troy Newman<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 05, 2010 10:06
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ken,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It still has to stay on flight
path<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">“Snap rolls have the same judging criteria as axial
rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">constant flight</SPAN></B> path through the
manoeuvre is concerned.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As Matt suggested this is not a discussion on we
think it should be, rather it is how the rule is
written<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Troy</SPAN></FONT></st1:City></st1:place><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ken Thompson<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 05, 2010 7:13
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Glad for that description...the
way I originally understood it the plane was not supposed to deviate from
the flight path...always said that was
impossible...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ken</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=drmikedds@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr
Mike</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Monday, July 05, 2010 7:04 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion]
snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yes that is
correct, thanks Matt.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B><A
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:22
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>;
<A
href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The F3A maneuver
description may be inadequate and/or inaccurate, however that doesn't
much matter for the judge who has the ardeous task of deciphering the
snap. The description stands as is for this cycle and that's how the
World's judges will judge them to the best of their ability next year. I
urge all judges that judge F3A Semis and Finals at this year's Nats/Team
Selection contest to take heed of FAI description (not AMA) and judge
accordingly.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In essence,
Snaps should not zeroe'd as easily as they once were; far cry from
where it was just a couple years ago. I believe that's the main
reason the rule was written as indicated.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike's point I
think deals with bringing the Snap back out of hibernation such that folks
get a chance to re-read it and re-hash just in time for the Team
Selection; fresh in one's mind so to
speak<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Matt
K<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Woodward, Jim R (US SSA)
<jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>To: '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</st1:PersonName>'
<<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</st1:PersonName>>;
'nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org'
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 4:27
pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion]
snaps<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike, I'm
replying from a blackberry without the benefit of the rulebook in front of
me. I thought these were called "Flick Rolls" now? I don't think any of us
are equipped in the context of judging a 0.5 second manuever to determine
if is "stalled" or "unstalled." I think Jerry Budd posted on the nsrca
list the last dissertation on snaps, which from memory, pretty much proved
the planes are not stalled.<BR><BR>Given you posted this, what do you want
to see happen? Thx Jim W.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">: <A
href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></FONT></A>
<<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us"><FONT
color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></FONT></A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To</SPAN></B>: '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>' <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT></A>>;
<A href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></FONT></A> <<A
href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</SPAN></FONT></A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent</SPAN></B>: Sun Jul 04
17:11:46 2010<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject</SPAN></B>:
[F3A-Discussion] snaps </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Given the abundance of snap maneuvers(7 maneuvers,
9 snaps) in the F-11 pattern, I feel compelled to give the exact
description via the F3A rulebook:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A snap-roll is a rapid autorotative roll where the
model aircraft is in a stalled attitude, with a continuous high angle of
attack.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Snap rolls have the same judging criteria as axial
rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and constant flight path
through the manoeuvre is concerned.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude
must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, before the
rotation is started, since the model aircraft is supposed to be I a
stalled condition throughout the maneuver. If the stall/break does
not occur and the model aircraft barrel-rolls around, the manoeuvre must
be severely downgraded(more than 5 points). Similarly, axial rolls
disguised as snap-rolls must be severely downgraded(more than 5
points)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and
negative, and the same criteria apply. The attitude(positive or
negative) is at the competitors discretion. If the model aircraft
returns to an unstalled condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is
severely downgraded using the 1 point/15 degree rule.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_4_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><FONT color=black size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT></A> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></FONT></A> </SPAN></FONT></TT><FONT color=black size=1><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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