<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.SHAPE
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
a:link
{mso-style-priority:99;}
span.MSOHYPERLINK
{mso-style-priority:99;}
a:visited
{mso-style-priority:99;}
span.MSOHYPERLINKFOLLOWED
{mso-style-priority:99;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;}
span.HTMLPREFORMATTEDCHAR
{mso-style-priority:99;}
p.MSOCHPDEFAULT
{mso-style-priority:99;}
li.MSOCHPDEFAULT
{mso-style-priority:99;}
div.MSOCHPDEFAULT
{mso-style-priority:99;}
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:black;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:black;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{font-family:"Courier New";}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.htmlpreformattedchar
{font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Calibri;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle27
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=black vlink=black>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Vicente,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think we are in agreement, as my
original post did not distinguish between the phases of the snap….ie, the
entry vs the rotation. My point was that the rotation should include
elements of pitch and yaw (and not just yaw and aileron…..ie, the “twinkle”
roll), and agree with you that the break ideally should be 100% pitch only - which
is, as you stated, very difficult to do.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It has been argued (not by me) that the
rule does not state the break must occur in pitch, and it does not specify the
degree of stall of wing, so a snap could be performed by inducing a partial
stall (on one wing) with aggressive application of the rudder. I do not
agree with this, as I believe the intent of the rule was for the break to occur
in pitch.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 05, 2010 3:16
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>In this sentence "I would hope it is clear
enough that snaps absent of both pitch and yaw must be downgraded" I
think should be pitch only. Yaw should be downgraded when reading
the FAI description of snap roll. I will agree that is extremely
difficult to see the yaw before or during the pitch brake. Also, I
know that it is very difficult to do a pure pitch break. Probably this is
the reason that all maneuvers with snaps have the highest K factor.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Dave" <DaveL322@comcast.net><br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Monday, July 5, 2010 1:47:46 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>“….break and separation from
the flight path…..”</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>and</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>“…….constant flight path
through the manoeuvre……”</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Seems to me that the definition is
contradictory. A break could occur in the sense that there is a deviation
between attitude and track, but “separation from the flight path”
and “constant flight path” are contradictory. I would hope it
is clear enough that snaps absent of both pitch and yaw must be downgraded.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would point out that a snap that
finishes on the same heading, but shows a minor line displacement has very
little effect on the geometry of the maneuver. Looking at a straight line
of 400’……a snap in the middle of the line would have to
displace 50 feet (8 wingspans) vertically or horizontally to change the line
(from start to finish) by 15 degrees (1 point). I see no other guidance
in the rulebook applicable to how a line displacement should be downgraded.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dr Mike<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 05, 2010 11:28
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Good point, thanks <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Troy</st1:place></st1:City>.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Troy Newman<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 05, 2010 10:06
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ken,</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>It still has to stay on flight path</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>“Snap rolls have the same judging
criteria as axial rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>constant flight</span></b> path through the manoeuvre
is concerned.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>As Matt suggested this is not a discussion
on we think it should be, rather it is how the rule is written<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Troy</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ken Thompson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 05, 2010 7:13
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Glad for that description...the way I
originally understood it the plane was not supposed to deviate from the flight
path...always said that was impossible...</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ken</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"
title="drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr Mike</a> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Monday, July 05, 2010 7:04 AM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Yes that is correct,
thanks Matt.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Mike </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><a
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com" target="_blank">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:22
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target="_blank">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
[F3A-Discussion] snaps</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The F3A maneuver description may be
inadequate and/or inaccurate, however that doesn't much matter for the
judge who has the ardeous task of deciphering the snap. The description stands
as is for this cycle and that's how the World's judges will judge them to the
best of their ability next year. I urge all judges that judge F3A Semis and
Finals at this year's Nats/Team Selection contest to take heed of FAI
description (not AMA) and judge accordingly.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In essence, Snaps should not zeroe'd
as easily as they once were; far cry from where it was just a couple years
ago. I believe that's the main reason the rule was written as indicated. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Mike's point I think deals with bringing
the Snap back out of hibernation such that folks get a chance to re-read it and
re-hash just in time for the Team Selection; fresh in one's mind so to speak</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Matt K</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Woodward, Jim R (US SSA) <jim.woodward@baesystems.com><br>
To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</st1:PersonName>'
<<st1:PersonName w:st="on">f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</st1:PersonName>>;
'nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 4:27 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [F3A-Discussion] snaps<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81">
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mike, I'm replying from a blackberry
without the benefit of the rulebook in front of me. I thought these were called
"Flick Rolls" now? I don't think any of us are equipped in the
context of judging a 0.5 second manuever to determine if is "stalled"
or "unstalled." I think Jerry Budd posted on the nsrca list the last
dissertation on snaps, which from memory, pretty much proved the planes are not
stalled.<br>
<br>
Given you posted this, what do you want to see happen? Thx Jim W.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>: <a
href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us" target="_blank"><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</span></font></a>
<<a href="mailto:f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us" target="_blank"><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>f3a-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us</span></font></a>>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To</span></b>: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>' <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a>>;
<a href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target="_blank"><font color=blue><span
style='color:blue'>f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</span></font></a> <<a
href="mailto:f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us" target="_blank"><font color=blue><span
style='color:blue'>f3a-discussion@lists.f3a.us</span></font></a>> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent</span></b>: Sun Jul 04 17:11:46 2010<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject</span></b>: [F3A-Discussion] snaps </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Given the abundance of snap maneuvers(7
maneuvers, 9 snaps) in the F-11 pattern, I feel compelled to give the exact
description via the F3A rulebook:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A snap-roll is a rapid autorotative roll
where the model aircraft is in a stalled attitude, with a continuous high angle
of attack.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Snap rolls have the same judging criteria
as axial rolls as far as start and stop of the rotation, and constant flight
path through the manoeuvre is concerned.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage
attitude must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, before
the rotation is started, since the model aircraft is supposed to be I a stalled
condition throughout the maneuver. If the stall/break does not occur and
the model aircraft barrel-rolls around, the manoeuvre must be severely
downgraded(more than 5 points). Similarly, axial rolls disguised as
snap-rolls must be severely downgraded(more than 5 points)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and
negative, and the same criteria apply. The attitude(positive or negative)
is at the competitors discretion. If the model aircraft returns to an
unstalled condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely downgraded
using the 1 point/15 degree rule. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_2b2915a2-627e-40ff-95e8-6b80b9711a81"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank"><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></a> </span></font></tt><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>