<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{font-family:"Courier New";}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The OS EFI looked at throttle position
(taken from the throttle servo signal pulse width), RPM, and temperature. I
disconnected the temp sensor and found it made ZERO difference in running
characteristics under normal conditions. Others reported the engine would not
even start without the temp sensor connected. My understanding is that EFI
computer unit basically compared throttle position to RPM and adjusted the
mixture to reduce rich/lean spots as the engine came on/off the pipe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The “biggest lie” about
electrics is that they always produce the same amount of power. Phooey. Ambient
temperature has a big influence.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So far as the ESC feature I would like to
have…..it is not a governor like the governor mode from the heli software
or the governor mode Dean has worked with for CL Stunt. And I certainly don’t
want my electric setup to emulate an IC (if I did, I’d just fly IC). What
the feature is, is a way to “clip” peak power at the beginning of
the discharge cycle to maintain a constant peak power (if/when requested by
advancing the throttle stick to 100%) and constant part throttle power. In the
instance of a fresh battery being capable of 6500 RPM, it might be limited to 6100
RPM…..and ˝ throttle would be 4500 RPM (for instance). As the battery is
discharged, it might only be capable of 6200 RPM, but full throttle would
remain 6100 RPM, and ˝ throttle would remain 4500 RPM. Think of it more as the
way modern TX output strength is controlled……….whether the TX
battery is freshly charged at 11 volts (Nixx) or near depleted at 9.3 volts…the
signal output strength is the same.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So far as a 45 upline or vertical upline……certainly
electric or IC both need throttle adjustments to maintain constant airspeed. A
“governor” that maintains constant prop RPM could be applied to either
setup (and potentially maintain constant airspeed without an input from the
pilot). In practice, less throttle adjustment is needed with an electric,
because as the load on the electric increases (airspeed decreases when
climbing), the electric motor attempts to maintain the RPM from the start of
the climb (KV*volts) by drawing more amps to maintain the RPM. IC doesn’t
do this….more load on engine results in a loss of RPM (absent any
specific tuning effects of the exhaust system, mixture, etc).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think the intent of the rules are clear
enough, and need to be updated to reflect the current technology.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:48
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Max volts</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ed,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'm not so sure. Most IC's don't have a
pressure regulator...the YS is about the only one. This a passive device that
has fixed settings. Dave's example of the EFI may be a dfferent story
though...I never spent any time dealing with the OS EFI so I don't know how it
worked. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The problem with such analogies is that
gas and glow fuels have a fixed amount of pop per unit mass. Put in X amount
and you will pretty much get Y out for any given set-up, even poor ones. Y
would vary of course depending on how good the set-up was, meaning different
operators will probably get different Y's. However Y would be pretty much fixed
for each operator<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Batteries on the other hand, have a
continuously variable amount of pop per unit mass. Electronically taking the
variable input volts and, through some apparently straight forward
software, drive a constant Y at the motor, is where I am having some
issue with. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>As for ESC's not doing much to alter
the piloting of the model, again I am not so sure. Dean used a good example: at
near the end of the flight, let's assume there is a diagonal or vertical. The
battery has lost some pop and the motor won't be able to keep up
under constant throttle conditions. The pilot would need to make a
throttle adjustment to maintain momentum. If the ESC had this new programming,
the pilot would fly through this without hardly noticing or changing his flying,
just like we do with ICs. I certainly am NOT opposed to reducing pilot work
load...it's the how not the what. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>And in this particular instance, equality
between the types of propulsion IS what the
programmable ESC proponents want.....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The rule as written is sticky. I think
that some type of clarification or addendum to the rule, as Earl suggested,
would eliminate the sticky wicket if you will.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>BTW- I am not implying that Dean is
against the programmable ESC, far from it. He has thought through what would be
needed to accomplish the task. In fact, he did something similar to Bob Hunt's
WC stunt entry a few years ago. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Matt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt@hotmail.com><br>
To: NSRCA List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2010 7:56 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_4579dbb9-5b7a-4104-a56f-1be504f49d00">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I actually was only halfway joking I said
"Ban the YS Pressure Regulator", or something like that. Not
that I really think it should be banned, but for everyone who thinks it
would be cheating to have an ESC that can auto-compensate for dwindling battery
voltage, then you ought to seriously think about why it is OK to have a
automatic pressure regulator in a recip. There isn't much
difference, other than one is wet and the other is dry. And the other key
point about having an ESC with this feature is that it doesn't do anything to
alter the piloting of the model based on the external conditions that the model
is encountering. All it is doing is de-rating the output of the the
battery to make it consistent throughout its useful operation range.
<br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>To: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:58:30 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I would argue that the ESC has the sensor
built. It isn't a sensor in the sense of a mag pick up such as CDI devices
have. It is rather an exact frequency determination to which the motor is
driven. It is simpler and hidden. Should we go back on mechanical
advance....God no./<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I think the CDI electronic advance is
similar to today's digital servo. The former advances spark pulsing based on
rpm and the latter advances motor output torque based on input load. Whether
each violates, not sure. Needs more thought and comparison to the rules. My
first take would be to say NO because the magnitude of adjustment is fixed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Matt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_3_206fcde7-b541-45f1-8411-1b649ce37e0a">
<div>
<div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_3_7847c14c-30b6-46fd-8ac5-d9082bf408bf">
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:4.2pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net" title="DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Wednesday, March 03, 2010 9:47 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Matt,</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>One more thought/consideration/question
–</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Is electronic ignition with variable
timing advance illegal? Essentially the RPM is sensed (through a sensor),
and as RPM increases, the timing is advanced. The ESCs of today do the
same function…they advance timing as RPM increases, but do so without
sensor. Should we go back to sensors and mechanical advance devices?</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Dave</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>On Mar 2, 2010, at
8:15 AM, <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> wrote:</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I had a brief conversation with Dean
Pappas on this subject recently. Dean explained that some folks have been
advocates of programming the ESC to do some footwork at various stages of
battery use. He explained to me just how easy this is to do physically. It
seems a few have mentioned something similar in this thread.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am not that concerned about raising the
voltage of the battery as I see this as a somewhat clear violation of the FAI
code. I am more concerned about what and how the ESC is
"programmed" . I would like for some one with the electronic/software
pedigree to explain to me how programming adjustable rates of voltage potential
and making these adjustments automatically, does not constitute a programming violation
within the rules as they exist today. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>When the rules were written, we were
clearly dealing with RADIO pre-programmed sequences and the like, no
gyros, etc. However I would argue that rate auto adjustments that are
definitely possible with the ESC's of today, also qualify as a violation of
said rules. Someone should sit down and think this through...I could be
convinced otherwise but it needs to be a good argument<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MattK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Anthony Romano <<a href="mailto:anthonyr105@hotmail.com">anthonyr105@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 8:29 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div id="ecxecxecxAOLMsgPart_3_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea">
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Keep this line of thinking in mind next
time we talk about weight limits! Or any other rules proposal.<br>
<br>
Anthony<br>
<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:45:57 -0500<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> <br>
> OK, So I have a question. Is knowingly and purposefully violating the
intent<br>
> and letter of the rules to gain a performance advantage called cheating?<br>
> ....... Just asking!<br>
> Dave Burton<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of James Oddino<br>
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:16 PM<br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> <br>
> I have the functional concept that solves the rules problem. Picture a 10S<br>
> pack positive lead wired to the common of a switch with two poles, a piece<br>
> of wire connected from one pole to a pole on a second two pole switch with<br>
> its common connected to the ESC. Between the other two poles we place our<br>
> 11th cell. When the 10S pack is above 37.5 volts the 11th cell is bypassed<br>
> and when it is below, like it will be during vertical maneuvers late in<br>
> flight, the 11th cell is put in series to boost the voltage to up to 41.7<br>
> volts. At no time is the voltage over the spec.<br>
> <br>
> Having said that, I believe the 10S system provides adequate power with
the<br>
> right motor at all times of flight even if the voltage drops to 35 volts.<br>
> <br>
> Jim<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Bob Kane wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Going higher and regulating down would be against the rules, the max
volts<br>
> is still limited to 42.56. <br>
> > <br>
> > Bob Kane<br>
> > <a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, krishlan fitzsimmons <<a
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> >> From: krishlan fitzsimmons <<a
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >> To: <a href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</a>,
"<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
> >> Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 9:54 AM<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Couldn't we go to a higher voltage and<br>
> >> regulate it back down? A contstant 42.56v would be nice!<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Chris <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> From: <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
> >> Northeast <<a href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</a>><br>
> >> To:<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >> Sent: Sun,<br>
> >> February 28, 2010 8:48:48 PM<br>
> >> Subject: Re:<br>
> >> [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >> <br>
> >> You would be at about 50% capacity at 3.85 ish volts/cell<br>
> >> (resting open circuit), so unless you up the capacity you<br>
> >> will have a pretty restricted flight time.<br>
> >> <br>
> >> <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
> >> <br>
> >> On 10-02-28 9:25 PM, Ron Van Putte wrote:<br>
> >>> That stirs a wild thought in my brain. Fully<br>
> >> charged packs don't stay at 4.2 volts per cell very<br>
> >> long. On the other hand, once the initial charge<br>
> >> voltage is burned off by a constant load, the voltage loss<br>
> >> curve "flattens out". What if you put fully<br>
> >> charged 6S and a 5S packs in series and "burn them<br>
> >> down" to 3.869 volts per cell (a total of 42.56<br>
> >> volts for an 11-cell pack) so they were legal for<br>
> >> use. Would the voltage of this depleted 11S pack be<br>
> >> higher than a fully charged 10S pack at the end of a typical<br>
> >> flight? If the end-of-flight voltage might be<br>
> >> significantly higher for the 11S pack vice a 10S pack, it<br>
> >> would be worth investigating, even considering the extra<br>
> >> weight of the additional cell. Come on you electronic<br>
> >> gurus, show me where I'm wrong.<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> Ron Van Putte<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:00 PM, James Oddino wrote:<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>>> What comes after ...? Does it specify a load<br>
> >> or any other conditions? Is it measured during the<br>
> >> noise test and have a minimum value?<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> Just stirring the pot, Jim O<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fuqua wrote:<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>>> No its not (assuming we are talking RC<br>
> >> Aerobatics). Try page RCA-2 para 4.1<br>
> >>>>> which<br>
> >> states "Electrically-powered model aircraft are<br>
> >> limited to a maximum<br>
> >>>>> of 42.56 volts.."<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
> >>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<br>
> >> On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<br>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:07 PM<br>
> >>>>> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern
discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> It's in the general rules, not in the R/C<br>
> >> section.<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jim
Quinn</st1:PersonName> wrote:<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>>> Where can I find the rule<br>
> >> for max volts?<br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing<br>
> >> list<br>
> >>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
> Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a>
<br>
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2715 - Release Date: 03/01/10<br>
> 14:34:00<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hotmail: Trusted email with
Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. <a
href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/" target="_blank">Sign up
now.</a> = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ecxecxecxAOLMsgPart_4_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea"><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></font></tt><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></tt><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></tt><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></tt><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Hotmail: Trusted email
with powerful SPAM protection. <a
href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/" target="_blank">Sign up
now.</a><br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4910 (20100302) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a></span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Your E-mail and More
On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. <a
href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/" target="_blank">Sign up
now.</a></span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_4_7847c14c-30b6-46fd-8ac5-d9082bf408bf"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ecxAOLMsgPart_4_206fcde7-b541-45f1-8411-1b649ce37e0a"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hotmail: Powerful Free email with
security by Microsoft. <a
href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/" target="_blank">Get it
now.</a> = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_4579dbb9-5b7a-4104-a56f-1be504f49d00 -->
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_4579dbb9-5b7a-4104-a56f-1be504f49d00"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_4_4579dbb9-5b7a-4104-a56f-1be504f49d00 --></div>
</body>
</html>