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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Matt,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>One
more thought/consideration/question –<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Is
electronic ignition with variable timing advance illegal? Essentially the RPM
is sensed (through a sensor), and as RPM increases, the timing is advanced. The
ESCs of today do the same function…they advance timing as RPM increases, but do
so without sensor. Should we go back to sensors and mechanical advance devices?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>On Mar 2, 2010, at 8:15 AM, <a
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I had a
brief conversation with Dean Pappas on this subject recently. Dean explained
that some folks have been advocates of programming the ESC to do some footwork
at various stages of battery use. He explained to me just how easy this is to
do physically. It seems a few have mentioned something similar in this thread.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am
not that concerned about raising the voltage of the battery as I see this as a
somewhat clear violation of the FAI code. I am more concerned about what
and how the ESC is "programmed" . I would like for some one with the
electronic/software pedigree to explain to me how programming adjustable rates
of voltage potential and making these adjustments automatically, does not
constitute a programming violation within the rules as they exist today. </span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>When
the rules were written, we were clearly dealing with RADIO pre-programmed
sequences and the like, no gyros, etc. However I would argue that rate auto
adjustments that are definitely possible with the ESC's of today, also qualify
as a violation of said rules. Someone should sit down and think this
through...I could be convinced otherwise but it needs to be a good argument</span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MattK</span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Anthony Romano <<a href="mailto:anthonyr105@hotmail.com">anthonyr105@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 8:29 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts</span></font><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="ecxecxAOLMsgPart_3_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea">
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Keep this line of
thinking in mind next time we talk about weight limits! Or any other rules
proposal.<br>
<br>
Anthony<br>
<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:45:57 -0500<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> <br>
> OK, So I have a question. Is knowingly and purposefully violating the
intent<br>
> and letter of the rules to gain a performance advantage called cheating?<br>
> ....... Just asking!<br>
> Dave Burton<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of James Oddino<br>
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:16 PM<br>
> To: General pattern discussion<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> <br>
> I have the functional concept that solves the rules problem. Picture a 10S<br>
> pack positive lead wired to the common of a switch with two poles, a piece<br>
> of wire connected from one pole to a pole on a second two pole switch with<br>
> its common connected to the ESC. Between the other two poles we place our<br>
> 11th cell. When the 10S pack is above 37.5 volts the 11th cell is bypassed<br>
> and when it is below, like it will be during vertical maneuvers late in<br>
> flight, the 11th cell is put in series to boost the voltage to up to 41.7<br>
> volts. At no time is the voltage over the spec.<br>
> <br>
> Having said that, I believe the 10S system provides adequate power with
the<br>
> right motor at all times of flight even if the voltage drops to 35 volts.<br>
> <br>
> Jim<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Bob Kane wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Going higher and regulating down would be against the rules, the max
volts<br>
> is still limited to 42.56. <br>
> > <br>
> > Bob Kane<br>
> > <a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, krishlan fitzsimmons <<a
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> >> From: krishlan fitzsimmons <<a
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >> To: <a href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</a>,
"General pattern discussion"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
> >> Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 9:54 AM<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Couldn't we go to a higher voltage and<br>
> >> regulate it back down? A contstant 42.56v would be nice!<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Chris <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> From: <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
> >> Northeast <<a href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</a>><br>
> >> To:<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >> Sent: Sun,<br>
> >> February 28, 2010 8:48:48 PM<br>
> >> Subject: Re:<br>
> >> [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >> <br>
> >> You would be at about 50% capacity at 3.85 ish volts/cell<br>
> >> (resting open circuit), so unless you up the capacity you<br>
> >> will have a pretty restricted flight time.<br>
> >> <br>
> >> <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
> >> <br>
> >> On 10-02-28 9:25 PM, Ron Van Putte wrote:<br>
> >>> That stirs a wild thought in my brain. Fully<br>
> >> charged packs don't stay at 4.2 volts per cell very<br>
> >> long. On the other hand, once the initial charge<br>
> >> voltage is burned off by a constant load, the voltage loss<br>
> >> curve "flattens out". What if you put fully<br>
> >> charged 6S and a 5S packs in series and "burn them<br>
> >> down" to 3.869 volts per cell (a total of 42.56<br>
> >> volts for an 11-cell pack) so they were legal for<br>
> >> use. Would the voltage of this depleted 11S pack be<br>
> >> higher than a fully charged 10S pack at the end of a typical<br>
> >> flight? If the end-of-flight voltage might be<br>
> >> significantly higher for the 11S pack vice a 10S pack, it<br>
> >> would be worth investigating, even considering the extra<br>
> >> weight of the additional cell. Come on you electronic<br>
> >> gurus, show me where I'm wrong.<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> Ron Van Putte<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:00 PM, James Oddino wrote:<br>
> >>> <br>
> >>>> What comes after ...? Does it specify a load<br>
> >> or any other conditions? Is it measured during the<br>
> >> noise test and have a minimum value?<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> Just stirring the pot, Jim O<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fuqua wrote:<br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>>> No its not (assuming we are talking RC<br>
> >> Aerobatics). Try page RCA-2 para 4.1<br>
> >>>>> which<br>
> >> states "Electrically-powered model aircraft are<br>
> >> limited to a maximum<br>
> >>>>> of 42.56 volts.."<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
> >>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<br>
> >> On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<br>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:07 PM<br>
> >>>>> To: General pattern discussion<br>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> It's in the general rules, not in the R/C<br>
> >> section.<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Jim Quinn wrote:<br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>>> Where can I find the rule<br>
> >> for max volts?<br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>>> <br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >>>>> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing<br>
> >> list<br>
> >>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>>> <br>
> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> >>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> >>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> >>> <br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<div id="ecxecxAOLMsgPart_4_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea"><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></font></tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></tt><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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