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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I'm not sure that I can see the difference between
this and your Webra with the mixture needle? Were you being deceptive
Matt? ;>)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max
volts</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=black size=2 face=arial>
<DIV>HMMMMMM!!!! </DIV>
<DIV>An ESC that compensates for variable input voltage (and I assume it does
this automatically with no input from the loose screw in front of the
controls). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And how is this different than a tx that compenates for variable (call it
erratic) stick movement by the same loose screw? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Voltage regs for airbrne systems don't look the same to me as this. A
servo functions pretty much the same at 4.8 as it does 6 volts. Sure it's a
little faster but the loose screw still has to command it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe it's picking nits but I am not convinced. I think that you are
talking about a device that counts poles per unit time and maintaining
that ratio as long as possible for any stick position, while the battery
lasts. It's a form of power governor. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>".....liberty, not equality...." I know you're joshing</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both"></DIV>
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<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_16a34173-6e2f-4bfe-a427-0831099061af>
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ed Alt<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:42
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Max volts</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Outlaw the regulators on every
YS!!!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal
align=center><FONT size=2 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From: <A
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</A><BR>Date: Tue, 2
Mar 2010 15:29:56 -0800<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<BR><BR>What the guys are talking about is
designing an ESC that compensates for varying input voltages. To make a
rule against something so obviously good is crazy. It would be like
prohibiting voltage regulators on our airborne RC system packs. Or
prohibiting the use of circuits that compensate for temperature changes in our
systems. I'm for simplifying the rules and regs. The fewer the
better. Define the size of the plane and the maneuvers to be performed
and anything you can do to make it fly better is okay. We want liberty
not equality.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jim</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On Mar 2,
2010, at 8:15 AM, <A href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
had a brief conversation with Dean Pappas on this subject recently. Dean
explained that some folks have been advocates of programming the ESC to do
some footwork at various stages of battery use. He explained to me just how
easy this is to do physically. It seems a few have mentioned something
similar in this thread.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
am not that concerned about raising the voltage of the battery as I see this
as a somewhat clear violation of the FAI code. I am more concerned
about what and how the ESC is "programmed" . I would like for some one with
the electronic/software pedigree to explain to me how programming adjustable
rates of voltage potential and making these adjustments automatically, does
not constitute a programming violation within the rules as they exist today.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When the rules
were written, we were clearly dealing with RADIO pre-programmed
sequences and the like, no gyros, etc. However I would argue that rate auto
adjustments that are definitely possible with the ESC's of today, also
qualify as a violation of said rules. Someone should sit down and think this
through...I could be convinced otherwise but it needs to be a good
argument</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">MattK</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Anthony Romano <<A
href="mailto:anthonyr105@hotmail.com">anthonyr105@hotmail.com</A>><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Sent:
Tue, Mar 2, 2010 8:29 am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max
volts</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=ecxAOLMsgPart_3_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Keep this line of
thinking in mind next time we talk about weight limits! Or any other rules
proposal.<BR> <BR>Anthony<BR> <BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A><BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:45:57 -0500<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Max volts<BR>> <BR>> OK, So I have a question. Is knowingly and
purposefully violating the intent<BR>> and letter of the rules to gain a
performance advantage called cheating?<BR>> ....... Just asking!<BR>>
Dave Burton<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of James Oddino<BR>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:16
PM<BR>> To: General pattern discussion<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<BR>> <BR>> I have the functional concept
that solves the rules problem. Picture a 10S<BR>> pack positive lead
wired to the common of a switch with two poles, a piece<BR>> of wire
connected from one pole to a pole on a second two pole switch with<BR>>
its common connected to the ESC. Between the other two poles we place
our<BR>> 11th cell. When the 10S pack is above 37.5 volts the 11th cell
is bypassed<BR>> and when it is below, like it will be during vertical
maneuvers late in<BR>> flight, the 11th cell is put in series to boost
the voltage to up to 41.7<BR>> volts. At no time is the voltage over the
spec.<BR>> <BR>> Having said that, I believe the 10S system provides
adequate power with the<BR>> right motor at all times of flight even if
the voltage drops to 35 volts.<BR>> <BR>> Jim<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Bob Kane wrote:<BR>> <BR>> >
Going higher and regulating down would be against the rules, the max
volts<BR>> is still limited to 42.56. <BR>> > <BR>> > Bob
Kane<BR>> > <A
href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</A><BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, krishlan fitzsimmons <<A
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</A>><BR>>
wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> >> From: krishlan fitzsimmons <<A
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</A>><BR>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<BR>> >> To: <A
href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</A>, "General pattern
discussion"<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>
>> Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 9:54 AM<BR>> >> <BR>>
>> Couldn't we go to a higher voltage and<BR>> >> regulate it
back down? A contstant 42.56v would be nice!<BR>> >> <BR>>
>> Chris <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> From: Chad<BR>>
>> Northeast <<A
href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</A>><BR>> >>
To:<BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>> Sent: Sun,<BR>> >> February 28, 2010 8:48:48 PM<BR>>
>> Subject: Re:<BR>> >> [NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<BR>>
>> <BR>> >> You would be at about 50% capacity at 3.85 ish
volts/cell<BR>> >> (resting open circuit), so unless you up the
capacity you<BR>> >> will have a pretty restricted flight
time.<BR>> >> <BR>> >> Chad<BR>> >> <BR>>
>> On 10-02-28 9:25 PM, Ron Van Putte wrote:<BR>> >>> That
stirs a wild thought in my brain. Fully<BR>> >> charged packs don't
stay at 4.2 volts per cell very<BR>> >> long. On the other hand,
once the initial charge<BR>> >> voltage is burned off by a constant
load, the voltage loss<BR>> >> curve "flattens out". What if you
put fully<BR>> >> charged 6S and a 5S packs in series and "burn
them<BR>> >> down" to 3.869 volts per cell (a total of
42.56<BR>> >> volts for an 11-cell pack) so they were legal
for<BR>> >> use. Would the voltage of this depleted 11S pack
be<BR>> >> higher than a fully charged 10S pack at the end of a
typical<BR>> >> flight? If the end-of-flight voltage might
be<BR>> >> significantly higher for the 11S pack vice a 10S pack,
it<BR>> >> would be worth investigating, even considering the
extra<BR>> >> weight of the additional cell. Come on you
electronic<BR>> >> gurus, show me where I'm wrong.<BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>> Ron Van Putte<BR>> >>>
<BR>> >>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:00 PM, James Oddino
wrote:<BR>> >>> <BR>> >>>> What comes after ...?
Does it specify a load<BR>> >> or any other conditions? Is it
measured during the<BR>> >> noise test and have a minimum
value?<BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> Just stirring the
pot, Jim O<BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>>
>>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fuqua wrote:<BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>>>> No its not (assuming we are
talking RC<BR>> >> Aerobatics). Try page RCA-2 para 4.1<BR>>
>>>>> which<BR>> >> states "Electrically-powered
model aircraft are<BR>> >> limited to a maximum<BR>>
>>>>> of 42.56 volts.."<BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> >>>>>
From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>>>> [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<BR>>
>> On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<BR>> >>>>> Sent:
Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:07 PM<BR>> >>>>> To: General
pattern discussion<BR>> >>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Max volts<BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> It's in the general rules, not in the R/C<BR>>
>> section.<BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>>
<BR>> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Jim Quinn
wrote:<BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> Where
can I find the rule<BR>> >> for max volts?<BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> <BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>>
>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>
>>>>>> <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >>>>> <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing<BR>> >> list<BR>> >>>>>
<A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >>>> <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >>> <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>> >> <BR>>
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target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
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<DIV id=ecxAOLMsgPart_4_a1464e77-3c63-4f8d-b134-28eaec9f2cea><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><TT><FONT color=black size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><TT><FONT color=black size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</SPAN></FONT></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><TT><FONT color=black size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></SPAN></FONT></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><TT><FONT color=black size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></FONT></TT></PRE></DIV></DIV>
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