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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>It was found, early on, that a hemi combustion
chamber was not as efficient as other shapes, due to the fact that it is a low
turbulence/mixing situation. thus the designers try to maintain a good
squish/quench band at the piston head. And, while porting is important, a good
valve job is 50% of the overall improvement in flow. Now, the above is
true for large 4 stroke engines; I am totally at a loss to argue for/against the
situation when it comes to our small displacement engines.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 14, 2009 10:15
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gas vs
Alcohol (was Newslist is flawed)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And not being a
chemist myself, but having learned bits and pieces along the way, and done a
lot of testing……<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">For the most part,
reducing oil content requires an increase in compression to realize more power
(assuming the engine was not over compressed to start with). Increasing
nitro requires a reduction in compression to realize more power (assuming the
engine was not under compressed to start with). So adding nitro to an
under compressed engine can generate a lot more power as the nitro blend will
make more power and the compression of the engine is being
optimized.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Combustion chamber
shape, porting, and exhaust system also influence what fuel blend will be the
best. Always best to start with manufacturers recommendations, and then
experiment gradually from there.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
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<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Atwood, Mark<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, December 14, 2009 8:43
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gas vs
Alcohol (was Newslist is flawed)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m curious
Bill, knowing virtually nothing about any of these chemical properties, if
most of us don’t run the higher nitro primarily to improve low end idle, and
transition characteristics, rather than top end RPM. That
seems to be where the real difference is between 20% and 30%, though an added
100-150RPM can be a HUGE difference on a 90deg
day…<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">-Mark<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT color=black size=2 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mark
Atwood</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Paragon
Consulting, Inc.</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> </SPAN></FONT><B><FONT
color=black size=2 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">|</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> President</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">5885 Landerbrook Drive
Suite 130</SPAN></FONT></st1:Street><FONT color=black size=1
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">, <st1:City
w:st="on">Cleveland</st1:City> <st1:State
w:st="on">Ohio</st1:State>, <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">44124</st1:PostalCode></SPAN></FONT></st1:address><FONT color=black
size=2 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Phone:
440.684.3101 x102 </SPAN></FONT><B><FONT color=black size=1
face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">|</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"> Fax:
440.684.3102</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1351f3 size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #1351f3; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</SPAN></FONT></A>
</SPAN></FONT><B><FONT color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">|</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=#1351f3 size=1 face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #1351f3; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">www.paragon-inc.com</SPAN></FONT></A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=2 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bill Glaze<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, December 14, 2009 5:26
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gas vs
Alcohol (was Newslist is flawed)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Assuredly, it's not a direct trade-off; Stochiometric
is different for the different fuels, of course. And the fact remains
that running pure methanol will provide approximately 15% more horsepower for
the fuel burned, which, again, is about twice that required for
gasoline. What it amounts to is that gasoline is the most efficient of
the three substances, but, in our case, I will admit readily that efficiency
is far down the list of requirements. I have been running some tests,
(of which the sampling is small, admittedly) and I was surprised at the small
rpm difference between 15% standard Morgan Cool Power, and 30% Heli. If
you need, or can discern, the small difference involved, then of course it
justifies the use of the 30% stuff. In my case, it doesn't seem to
justify the usage. When one mixes in the Latent Heat of Vaporization,
the waters are muddied even more, but it probably is of small concern in
engines the size of ours, due to the small swept volume, and the variation of
conditions having to do with cooling, both external and
internal.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bill Glaze<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday,
December 14, 2009 5:08 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Gas vs Alcohol (was Newslist is
flawed)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bill,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The heat energy per unit has little to do with
the power we get from an internal combustion engine. The limiting
factor is how much air we can get into the engine. Each fuel has an
optimum ratio to be mixed with the amount of air that enters the
engine. Gasoline burns the leanest. Methanol burns much richer, so
more fuel goes into the engine per stroke. Nitro is even richer.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I've also read that nitro expands to a much
larger volume when it burns, even though it puts out less heat per
unit than methanol, which is one reason why nitro by itself puts out
much more power than methanol. I may open a can of worms when I say
this, but it has been my experience in both pattern planes and
helicopters that higher nitro makes the engine run cooler.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Think about it, methanol puts out less heat
per unit, but develops more power than gasoline. Gasoline engines must
have larger cooling fins, even though less power is being developed.
Gasoline burns so lean compared to methanol, this is the reason why
gasoline carbs are more complicated than alcohol carbs. Add nitro,
then the needle must be opened more and becomes less sensitive. This
may be an over-simplistic explanation because the thermodynamics are
vastly different (methanol provides a lot of internal cooling as it
atomizes) but it works for me. :-)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob R.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 12/14/09, Bill Glaze <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><billglaze@bellsouth.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From: Bill
Glaze <billglaze@bellsouth.net><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.<BR>To:
"<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern
discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, December
14, 2009, 6:28 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=yiv1339268455>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The specific heat
generated by gasoline is about twice the specific heat generated by
alcohol, which, in turn is about twice the specific heat generated
by nitro. In other words, on a mass basis, nitro is a more
inefficient fuel on a pure basis than alcohol, which is less
efficient than gasoline. (from a volume/efficiency
standpoint)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Or so my handbook stated
when I was building competition engines. Then why use nitro at
all? Well, because it generates more O2 than it needs to burn,
thereby helping the other "combustibles" complete their combustion,
and it's possible to run a hellacious load of nitro per cycle
because of it's burn
characteristics.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bill
Glaze</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message
----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vicenterc@comcast.net"
target=_blank>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>General pattern discussion</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Sunday, December 13,
2009 8:48 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my
opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Matt,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black
size=3 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It will
be very interesting to see your results. I had the chance to
build and fly the Abbra with ZDZ 40. I was able to comparare
the same plane with OS160 back-to-back. Clearly the ZDZ 40
was behind in power (or power-to-weight ratio) when
compared with the OS 160 when doing the Master schedule of that
time. I am sure that less fuel consumption with less
BTU content means less power. The Abbra with the ZDZ 40
was ~3-4 oz over 11 lbs. The OS 160 Abbra was 9.8
lbs. I am not sure now what the new gasoline engines
manufactures are doing to increase the power. I believe that
an improvement in the design of gas engines is required to make it
usable for pattern. <BR><BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From:
rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 12,
2009 10:46:09 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my
opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Yes
that's true. When I was mixing my fuel I needed to do it by volume
until I figgered what the volume weighed for each of the nitro
blends I was mixing..... 30% nitro is around 10% denser (weighs
around 10% more for a tankful) than 15% nitro.
<BR><BR>Soooo....the guys who are running the YS not only use much
larger tanks but their tanks weigh more when full than they would
have running lower nitro. But YS is a dawg on lower nitro. You
gotta admire YS Marketing strategy<BR><BR>Yet another reason I am
looking into gasoline powerplants for pattern. Gas is
significantly less dense than 30% nitro blend and gas engines
demand less fuel to begin with. A 320 cc tank (around 11 ozs) will
run the 30 cc engine for around 12 minutes, enough for about 1 2/3
master
schedules.<BR><BR><BR><BR>MattK<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black
size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Verne Koester
<verne@twmi.rr.com><BR>To: '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sat, Dec 12,
2009 11:24 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list
is flawed in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_36928406-251f-4393-a13c-29f1a41a8f4c>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=5 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 16pt">The
weight of fuel is going to depend in large part on the percentage
of nitro. Nitro is the heaviest component. Don’t believe it? Go to
the hobby shop and pick up a gallon of 5% with one hand and 30%
with the other, preferably from the same manufacturer. You’ll be
surprised. I know I was when a fuel manufacturer showed me at
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Toledo</st1:place></st1:City> about twenty years ago.
Fortunately, pilots with glow planes are weighed without the fuel
so they don’t have to worry about that…</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#1f497d size=5 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 16pt">Verne</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT></A>
[<A
href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org&"
target=_blank><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT></A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bill's
Email<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:16 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my
opinion.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=2
face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ed
Alt wrote: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">About
0.75 oz per fluid oz.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR>I
just weighed a gallon of fuel I have here. It was 7.8 pounds
including the plastic jig. 0.75 ounces per fluid ounce would mean
the jug weighs +/- 29 ounces (1.8 pounds).
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=
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NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
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mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
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list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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