<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Bill,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The heat energy per unit has little to do with the power we get from an internal combustion engine. The limiting factor is how much air we can get into the engine. Each fuel has an optimum ratio to be mixed with the amount of air that enters the engine. Gasoline burns the leanest. Methanol burns much richer, so more fuel goes into the engine per stroke. Nitro is even richer. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've also read that nitro expands to a much larger volume when it burns, even though it puts out less heat per unit than methanol, which is one reason why nitro by itself puts out much more power than methanol. I may open a can of worms when I say this, but it has been my experience in both pattern planes and helicopters that higher nitro makes the engine run cooler. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Think about it, methanol puts out less heat per unit, but develops more power than gasoline. Gasoline engines must have larger cooling fins, even though less power is being developed. Gasoline burns so lean compared to methanol, this is the reason why gasoline carbs are more complicated than alcohol carbs. Add nitro, then the needle must be opened more and becomes less sensitive. This may be an over-simplistic explanation because the thermodynamics are vastly different (methanol provides a lot of internal cooling as it atomizes) but it works for me. :-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 12/14/09, Bill Glaze <I><billglaze@bellsouth.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Bill Glaze <billglaze@bellsouth.net><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 6:28 PM<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The specific heat generated by gasoline is about twice the specific heat generated by alcohol, which, in turn is about twice the specific heat generated by nitro. In other words, on a mass basis, nitro is a more inefficient fuel on a pure basis than alcohol, which is less efficient than gasoline. (from a volume/efficiency standpoint)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Or so my handbook stated when I was building competition engines. Then why use nitro at all? Well, because it generates more O2 than it needs to burn, thereby helping the other "combustibles" complete their combustion, and it's possible to run a hellacious load of nitro per cycle because of it's burn characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vicenterc@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">Vicente "Vince" Bortone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:48 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>Matt,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It will be very interesting to see your results. I had the chance to build and fly the Abbra with ZDZ 40. I was able to comparare the same plane with OS160 back-to-back. Clearly the ZDZ 40 was behind in power (or power-to-weight ratio) when compared with the OS 160 when doing the Master schedule of that time. I am sure that less fuel consumption with less BTU content means less power. The Abbra with the ZDZ 40 was ~3-4 oz over 11 lbs. The OS 160 Abbra was 9.8 lbs. I am not sure now what the new gasoline engines manufactures are doing to increase the power. I believe that an improvement in the design of gas engines is required to make it usable for pattern. <BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:46:09 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada
Central<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.<BR><BR></DIV><FONT color=black size=2 face=arial>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes that's true. When I was mixing my fuel I needed to do it by volume until I figgered what the volume weighed for each of the nitro blends I was mixing..... 30% nitro is around 10% denser (weighs around 10% more for a tankful) than 15% nitro. <BR><BR>Soooo....the guys who are running the YS not only use much larger tanks but their tanks weigh more when full than they would have running lower nitro. But YS is a dawg on lower nitro. You gotta admire YS Marketing strategy<BR><BR>Yet another reason I am looking into gasoline powerplants for pattern. Gas is significantly less dense than 30% nitro blend and gas engines demand less fuel to begin with. A 320 cc tank (around 11 ozs) will run the 30 cc engine for around 12 minutes, enough for about 1 2/3 master schedules.<BR><BR><BR><BR>MattK<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Verne Koester <verne@twmi.rr.com><BR>To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:24 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 16pt">The weight of fuel is going to depend in large part on the percentage of nitro. Nitro is the heaviest component. Don’t believe it? Go to the hobby shop and pick up a gallon of 5% with one hand and 30% with the other, preferably from the same manufacturer. You’ll be surprised. I know I was when a fuel manufacturer showed me at Toledo about twenty years ago. Fortunately, pilots with glow planes are weighed without the fuel so they don’t have to worry about that…</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 16pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 16pt">Verne</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org&" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill's Email<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:16 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] This email list is flawed in my opinion.</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal>Ed Alt wrote: </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal>About 0.75 oz per fluid oz.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><BR><BR>I just weighed a gallon of fuel I have here. It was 7.8 pounds including the plastic jig. 0.75 ounces per fluid ounce would mean the jug weighs +/- 29 ounces (1.8 pounds). </DIV></DIV></DIV>
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