<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>The un-intended consequence of more weight allowance is that it will get filled by even more expensive parts.<br><br>In general a consequence of lowering limits would be lowered costs. <br><br>Look backwards thru the years when weight/engine size limits were less than now, costs were less.<br>(maybe easier to attract new folks to pattern?)<br><br>Ron Lockhart<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "James Oddino" <joddino@socal.rr.com><br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:36:58 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br><br>That's what I was going to say. Smaller is more difficult to fly, so why not?<div><br></div><div>Jim O</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div lang="EN-US"><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Want to reduce cost....make the maximum weight in AMA 9lbs.</font></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="astafford@swtexas.net" href="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">Archie Stafford</a></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">'General pattern discussion'</a></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 11, 2009 16:30</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</div><div><br></div><div class="Section1"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;">Very simple statement. Open your checkbook if this passes. Big 2 meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a 50CC size engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are right Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we are flying now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and watch what happens.</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;">Arch</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Bill Glaze<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 11, 2009 5:16 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>; General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> </div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Yep! I've got a G-62 laying around here that I have no use for--until now.</div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Bill</div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-left: 1.5pt solid black; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">----- Original Message -----</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="jpavlick@idseng.com" href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">John Pavlick</a></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">General pattern discussion</a></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 11, 2009 4:47 PM</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> </div></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0in;" valign="top"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a gas-powered biplane. LOL</div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">John Pavlick<br><br>--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave Burton<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">burtona@atmc.net</a>></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-left: 1.5pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><br>From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM</p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate the 11 lb. Weight<br>limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<br>I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<br>NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<br><br>My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<br><br>1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<br>size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<br>disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<br>2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<br>planes to reasonable limits.<br>3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<br>proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<br>4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through the<br>necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<br>"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail boats)<br>5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<br>with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<br><br>OK, guys, what do you think?<br>What other "pro" and "con" points?<br>Dave Burton<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; text-align: center;" align="center"><hr width="100%" align="center" size="2"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div><br>_______________________________________________
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