<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>I don't think weight should be the determining factor. The "old" pattern was</DIV>
<DIV>controlled by engine displacement which controlled how big or heavy the</DIV>
<DIV>airplane could practically be.</DIV>
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<DIV>tommy s<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/12/09, ronlock@comcast.net <I><ronlock@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: ronlock@comcast.net <ronlock@comcast.net><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 8:09 AM<BR><BR>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The un-intended consequence of more weight allowance is that it will get filled by even more expensive parts.<BR><BR>In general a consequence of lowering limits would be lowered costs. <BR><BR>Look backwards thru the years when weight/engine size limits were less than now, costs were less.<BR>(maybe easier to attract new folks to pattern?)<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Oddino" <joddino@socal.rr.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:36:58 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<BR><BR>That's what I was going to say. Smaller is more difficult to fly, so why not?
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<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
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<DIV>On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Want to reduce cost....make the maximum weight in AMA 9lbs.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=astafford@swtexas.net style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=astafford@swtexas.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net">Archie Stafford</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 16:30</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Very simple statement. Open your checkbook if this passes. Big 2 meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a 50CC size engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are right Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we are flying now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and watch what happens.</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Arch</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Bill Glaze<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 5:16 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A style="COLOR: blue;
TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A>; General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Yep! I've got a G-62 laying around here that I have no use for--until now.</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Bill</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">----- Original Message -----</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228)"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=jpavlick@idseng.com style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 4:47 PM</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a gas-powered biplane. LOL</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">John Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave Burton<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I><<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=burtona@atmc.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A>></I></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>From: Dave Burton <<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=burtona@atmc.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A>><BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<BR>To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate the 11 lb. Weight<BR>limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<BR>I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<BR>NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<BR><BR>My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<BR><BR>1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<BR>size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<BR>disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<BR>2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<BR>planes to reasonable limits.<BR>3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<BR>proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<BR>4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through
the<BR>necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<BR>"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail boats)<BR>5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<BR>with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<BR><BR>OK, guys, what do you think?<BR>What other "pro" and "con" points?<BR>Dave Burton<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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