<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'>
<div> <font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very little carbon, good ol balsa and ply. A key thing is a gram scale because you have to weigh EVERYTHING.<br>
<br>
BUT you must know how to build...that is THE ESSENTIAL element. You must not be at the mercy of arfies <br>
<br>
MattK<br>
</font></font></div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: helvetica,arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dave Burton <burtona@atmc.net><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2009 8:45 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hummmmmm! </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Building a modern large 2 meter pattern bird at 9 lbs would
require what kind of high tech materials and technology? </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">How many would have one of these?</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Oddino<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 11, 2009 8:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">That's what I was going to say. Smaller is more
difficult to fly, so why not?</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Jim O</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Want
to reduce cost....make the maximum weight in AMA 9lbs.</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";"></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">-----
Original Message -----</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net" title="astafford@swtexas.net">Archie
Stafford</a></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Friday, December 11,
2009 16:30</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";"> </span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Very simple statement. Open your checkbook if this
passes. Big 2 meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a
50CC size engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger,
more powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this
would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are right
Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we are flying
now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and
watch what happens.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Arch</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Bill Glaze<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 11,
2009 5:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>; General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Yep! I've got a G-62 laying around here that I have no
use for--until now.</div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Bill</div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">-----
Original Message -----</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" title="jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</a></span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Friday, December 11,
2009 4:47 PM</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal">Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a
gas-powered biplane. LOL</div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave
Burton<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></i></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</div>
</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate
the 11 lb. Weight<br>
limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<br>
I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<br>
NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<br>
<br>
My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<br>
<br>
1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<br>
size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<br>
disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<br>
2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<br>
planes to reasonable limits.<br>
3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<br>
proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<br>
4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through the<br>
necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<br>
"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail
boats)<br>
5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<br>
with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<br>
<br>
OK, guys, what do you think?<br>
What other "pro" and "con" points?<br>
Dave Burton<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
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