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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Look at racing sail boats if you think heavier cost more. Look
at jet fighters. The opposite is true IMO. Lighter cost more in the same
size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Aren’t you even contradicting yourself in your third
sentence?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>CHV69@aol.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 12, 2009 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>No matter what sport or hobby, Bigger ( heavier ) WILL cost more!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Keep the pattern class the same and play within the rules. Sure it
will cost more to build a lighter more powerful pattern ship. Increasing weight
limits in my opinion will NOT reduce the cost of a competitive pattern ship. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Carl<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>In a message dated 12/12/2009 9:12:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ronlock@comcast.net writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The
un-intended consequence of more weight allowance is that it will get filled by
even more expensive parts.<br>
<br>
In general a consequence of lowering limits would be lowered costs.
<br>
<br>
Look backwards thru the years when weight/engine size limits were less than
now, costs were less.<br>
(maybe easier to attract new folks to pattern?)<br>
<br>
Ron Lockhart<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "James Oddino" <joddino@socal.rr.com><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:36:58 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
<br>
That's what I was going to say. Smaller is more difficult to fly, so why
not? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jim
O<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On
Dec 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Want to reduce cost....make the maximum weight in AMA 9lbs.</span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net"
target="_blank" title="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net">Archie Stafford</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Friday,
December 11, 2009 16:30<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Very simple statement. Open your checkbook if this
passes. Big 2 meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a
50CC size engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger,
more powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this
would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are right
Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we are flying
now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and
watch what happens.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Bill Glaze<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, December 11,
2009 5:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target="_blank"
title="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>; General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Yep! I've got a G-62 laying
around here that I have no use for--until now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>----- Original Message -----</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target="_blank" title="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</a></span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a></span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Friday,
December 11, 2009 4:47 PM</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a
gas-powered biplane. LOL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave
Burton<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i><<a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" target="_blank" title="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></i></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" target="_blank"
title="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate
the 11 lb. Weight<br>
limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<br>
I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<br>
NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<br>
<br>
My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<br>
<br>
1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<br>
size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<br>
disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<br>
2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<br>
planes to reasonable limits.<br>
3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<br>
proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<br>
4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through the<br>
necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<br>
"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail
boats)<br>
5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<br>
with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<br>
<br>
OK, guys, what do you think?<br>
What other "pro" and "con" points?<br>
Dave Burton<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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target="_blank"
title="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" title="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" title="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" title="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
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