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<DIV>No matter what sport or hobby, Bigger ( heavier ) WILL cost more!</DIV>
<DIV>Keep the pattern class the same and play within the rules. Sure it will
cost more to build a lighter more powerful pattern ship. Increasing weight
limits in my opinion will NOT reduce the cost of a competitive pattern ship.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Carl</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/12/2009 9:12:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ronlock@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
un-intended consequence of more weight allowance is that it will get filled by
even more expensive parts.<BR><BR>In general a consequence of lowering limits
would be lowered costs. <BR><BR>Look backwards thru the years when
weight/engine size limits were less than now, costs were less.<BR>(maybe
easier to attract new folks to pattern?)<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Oddino"
<joddino@socal.rr.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009
8:36:58 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes<BR><BR>That's what I was going to say. Smaller is
more difficult to fly, so why not?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV lang=EN-US>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Want to reduce cost....make the maximum weight
in AMA 9lbs.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; x-system-font: none">-----
Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; x-system-font: none"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:astafford@swtexas.net
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net" target=_blank>Archie
Stafford</A></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; x-system-font: none"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General
pattern discussion'</A></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; x-system-font: none"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009
16:30</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; x-system-font: none"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">Very
simple statement. Open your checkbook if this passes. Big 2
meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a 50CC size
engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more
powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this
would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are
right Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we
are flying now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with
unlimited power and watch what happens.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">Arch</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma,sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Bill
Glaze<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 5:16
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>;
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif">Yep!
I've got a G-62 laying around here that I have no use for--until
now.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif">Bill</DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif">----- Original
Message -----</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228)"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank>John
Pavlick</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>General
pattern discussion</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 4:47
PM</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif">Excellent!
Looks like I can finally build a gas-powered biplane.
LOL</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif">John
Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave
Burton<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I><<A
title=mailto:burtona@atmc.net
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"
target=_blank>burtona@atmc.net</A>></I></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif"><BR>From:
Dave Burton <<A title=mailto:burtona@atmc.net
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"
target=_blank>burtona@atmc.net</A>><BR>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<BR>To: "'General
pattern discussion'" <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM</P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif">I
have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate the 11
lb. Weight<BR>limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal
11-11).<BR>I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons
of this proposal on the<BR>NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern
forum.<BR><BR>My reasons for submitting the proposal include the
following points:<BR><BR>1. There is no competitive advantage to
a heavier plane with the 2 meter<BR>size constraint (in fact I'd
argue a heavier plane is usually at a<BR>disadvantage and
perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<BR>2.
The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of
pattern<BR>planes to reasonable limits.<BR>3. The fact that AMA
class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<BR>proof
that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<BR>4. The 11
lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through
the<BR>necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If
you don't believe<BR>"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the
people who race sail boats)<BR>5. Removing the weight limit will
reduce the manpower and cost associated<BR>with running the
Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<BR><BR>OK,
guys, what do you think?<BR>What other "pro" and "con"
points?<BR>Dave
Burton<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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