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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Way back in the day, I remember a friend of mine
who was in on the design of the F-4. Northrup management told the
employees "a pound saved is worth $1000." Back when a $1000 was worth
something. What they didn't explain was just who got the $1000. Oh,
Well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 12, 2009 1:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Look
at racing sail boats if you think heavier cost more. Look at jet fighters.
The opposite is true IMO. Lighter cost more in the same
size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Aren’t
you even contradicting yourself in your third sentence?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B><A
href="mailto:CHV69@aol.com">CHV69@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday,
December 12, 2009 1:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No
matter what sport or hobby, Bigger ( heavier ) WILL cost
more!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Keep
the pattern class the same and play within the rules. Sure it will cost more
to build a lighter more powerful pattern ship. Increasing weight limits in my
opinion will NOT reduce the cost of a competitive pattern ship.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Carl<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In a
message dated 12/12/2009 9:12:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ronlock@comcast.net writes:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">The un-intended
consequence of more weight allowance is that it will get filled by even more
expensive parts.<BR><BR>In general a consequence of lowering limits would be
lowered costs. <BR><BR>Look backwards thru the years when
weight/engine size limits were less than now, costs were less.<BR>(maybe
easier to attract new folks to pattern?)<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Oddino"
<joddino@socal.rr.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009
8:36:58 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes<BR><BR>That's what I was going to say.
Smaller is more difficult to fly, so why not? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Jim
O<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">On Dec 11, 2009, at
3:11 PM, Mark Hunt wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Want
to reduce cost....make the maximum weight in AMA 9lbs.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----
Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=mailto:astafford@swtexas.net href="mailto:astafford@swtexas.net"
target=_blank>Archie Stafford</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General
pattern discussion'</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Friday,
December 11, 2009 16:30<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA
classes<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Very
simple statement. Open your checkbook if this passes. Big 2
meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a 50CC size
engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more
powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this
would reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are
right Dave, there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we
are flying now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with
unlimited power and watch what happens.</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Arch</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Bill
Glaze<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Friday, December 11, 2009 5:16
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>; General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
limit in AMA classes</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Yep! I've got a G-62
laying around here that I have no use for--until
now.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Bill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----
Original Message -----</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>John Pavlick</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>General
pattern discussion</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Friday,
December 11, 2009 4:47 PM</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Excellent! Looks like I can finally
build a gas-powered biplane. LOL<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>John Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave
Burton<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I><<A
title=mailto:burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"
target=_blank>burtona@atmc.net</A>></I></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>From: Dave
Burton <<A title=mailto:burtona@atmc.net
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"
target=_blank>burtona@atmc.net</A>><BR>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<BR>To:
"'General pattern discussion'" <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I have submitted a rules proposal to
completely eliminate the 11 lb. Weight<BR>limit in AMA pattern
classes. (proposal 11-11).<BR>I'd like to see some discussion
on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<BR>NSRCA e-mail
list and the Pattern forum.<BR><BR>My reasons for submitting
the proposal include the following points:<BR><BR>1. There is
no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2
meter<BR>size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is
usually at a<BR>disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight
makes more sense than a maximum)<BR>2. The 2 meter size
constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<BR>planes
to reasonable limits.<BR>3. The fact that AMA class planes are
weighed only at the US Nationals gives<BR>proof that the rule
is not now enforced and not needed.<BR>4. The 11 lb. Weight
limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through
the<BR>necessary use of more expensive high tech materials.
(If you don't believe<BR>"light weight" cost a lot of money
ask the people who race sail boats)<BR>5. Removing the weight
limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<BR>with
running the Nationals And also perhaps increase
participation.<BR><BR>OK, guys, what do you think?<BR>What
other "pro" and "con" points?<BR>Dave
Burton<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
title=http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">
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