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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What about raising the weight, but not
making it unlimited?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay Marshall</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Burton<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>December 11,
2009</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>6:01 PM</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Arch,
you may be right on this, but I wonder how many pattern flyers would do this.
Seems to me that cheaper 2 M mono planes could be available without the carbon
fiber/Kevlar/titanium/aluminum expensive stuff we use today to get under 11
lbs. How big can you make a 2 meter plane within the 2 meter box. So what if
gas engines could be used. Probably would be cheaper than the YS 170 CDI in use
today. I could certainly use the under $200.00 AXI 5330 FAI rather than
the $500+ Pletty. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I
don’t know if the rules proposal has much merit or not, but I wanted to
get it on the table for consideration.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Dave
Burton</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, December 11, 2009
5:30 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Very
simple statement. Open your checkbook if this passes. Big 2 meter
bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a 50CC size engine that
blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more powerful electric
setups to remain competitive. People thing this would reduce the cost, it
will do exactly the opposite. You are right Dave, there is no competitive
advantage to a plane of the size we are flying now being 11 1/2lbs, but be able
to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and watch what happens.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Arch</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bill Glaze<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, December 11, 2009
5:16 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> jpavlick@idseng.com; General
pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Yep! I've got a G-62 laying around here that I
have no use for--until now.</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bill</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" title="jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday,
December 11, 2009 4:47 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes</span></font></p>
</div>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a
gas-powered biplane. LOL</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave Burton <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate
the 11 lb. Weight<br>
limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<br>
I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<br>
NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<br>
<br>
My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<br>
<br>
1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<br>
size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<br>
disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<br>
2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<br>
planes to reasonable limits.<br>
3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<br>
proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<br>
4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through the<br>
necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<br>
"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail
boats)<br>
5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<br>
with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<br>
<br>
OK, guys, what do you think?<br>
What other "pro" and "con" points?<br>
Dave Burton<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
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