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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is still competition. If guys weren’t worried
about being competitive, you can go buy a .60 size Kaos and fly pattern.
You probably wont be competitive, but you can fly. This rule change would
just make todays 2M stuff obsolete and that would be exactly the situation we
are in now. There are guys making weight with the cheap stuff
today. The top guys will always fly the top of the line stuff. This
is still competition and there are options to fly cheaper options, albeit probably
not as competitive. Pattern by nature is not cheap, NOTHING competitive
is. Everyone in the world can go play golf, but you don’t see the
top guys in the world buying clubs at walmart, and there are airframes out
there that will make weight with the cheaper setups that are available
today. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You are right, todays available gas engines are cheaper than a
YS 1.70DZ CDI setup, but change the rules and watch that change as people
develop engines just specifically for pattern competition. You can
fly todays patterns with an OS 1.60, but I will argue you are at a disadvantage
with that setup compared to the top electric and YS setups. There is a
reason the top stuff costs more, because it is better. If you could build
a competitive engine cheaply, then I’m sure someone would have done it by
now. It’s not in the best interest of the manufacturers to have the
cost out of reach for many people. Top level options, expensive options
will always be available, no matter what rules you change. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave
Burton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 11, 2009 6:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch, you may be right on this, but I wonder how many pattern
flyers would do this. Seems to me that cheaper 2 M mono planes could be
available without the carbon fiber/Kevlar/titanium/aluminum expensive stuff we
use today to get under 11 lbs. How big can you make a 2 meter plane within the
2 meter box. So what if gas engines could be used. Probably would be cheaper
than the YS 170 CDI in use today. I could certainly use the under $200.00 AXI
5330 FAI rather than the $500+ Pletty. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t know if the rules proposal has much merit or not,
but I wanted to get it on the table for consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave Burton<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Archie
Stafford<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 11, 2009 5:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Very simple statement. Open your checkbook if this
passes. Big 2 meter bipes will be the norm. YS will come out with a
50CC size engine that blows away other gas or Nitro setups, and much bigger, more
powerful electric setups to remain competitive. People thing this would
reduce the cost, it will do exactly the opposite. You are right Dave,
there is no competitive advantage to a plane of the size we are flying now
being 11 1/2lbs, but be able to build a 13lb bipe with unlimited power and
watch what happens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill
Glaze<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 11, 2009 5:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jpavlick@idseng.com; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yep! I've got a G-62 laying around here that I have no
use for--until now.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
title="jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Friday, December 11,
2009 4:47 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Weight limit in AMA classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Excellent! Looks like I can finally build a
gas-powered biplane. LOL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Fri, 12/11/09, Dave Burton <i><<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Dave Burton <<a href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight limit in AMA classes<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 4:38 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have submitted a rules proposal to completely eliminate
the 11 lb. Weight<br>
limit in AMA pattern classes. (proposal 11-11).<br>
I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of this proposal on the<br>
NSRCA e-mail list and the Pattern forum.<br>
<br>
My reasons for submitting the proposal include the following points:<br>
<br>
1. There is no competitive advantage to a heavier plane with the 2 meter<br>
size constraint (in fact I'd argue a heavier plane is usually at a<br>
disadvantage and perhaps a minimum weight makes more sense than a maximum)<br>
2. The 2 meter size constraint is sufficient keep the weight of pattern<br>
planes to reasonable limits.<br>
3. The fact that AMA class planes are weighed only at the US Nationals gives<br>
proof that the rule is not now enforced and not needed.<br>
4. The 11 lb. Weight limit drives up the cost of pattern planes through the<br>
necessary use of more expensive high tech materials. (If you don't believe<br>
"light weight" cost a lot of money ask the people who race sail
boats)<br>
5. Removing the weight limit will reduce the manpower and cost associated<br>
with running the Nationals And also perhaps increase participation.<br>
<br>
OK, guys, what do you think?<br>
What other "pro" and "con" points?<br>
Dave Burton<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
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