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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Matthew,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I've stayed out of this discussion because of quite
a few years of experience being subjected to the whims of the powers that be.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As you state, well intentioned, but misguided
none-the-less.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I agree with your logic, but it's success is
unattainable. I gave up some time ago trying to keep up with the rules
change proposals</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>submitted and railroaded through by well meaning,
but deluded analysts bent on improving execution problems that were
inappropriately</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>interpreted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Twelve years ago we had a fantastic rulebook that
if correctly interpreted answered all of the associated questions currently
being </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>wrestled with and at that time I had a
good understanding on it's proposed methodology and
idiosyncracies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>With the passage of time, people come into the
program, and when they first arrive they are just happy to be participants, but
with </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>the passage of time they win their first contest
and all of a sudden they become serious. With their new serious attitude they
begin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>to feel that they have a responsibility to better
understand the rules process and so they, for the first time, immerse themselves
in</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>a scrutiny of the book. The unfortunate thing about
all of this is that many seem to misconstrue the true meaning of the
maneuver </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>descriptions or decide that what they're reading
departs from the way they have been doing it right along and in their zeal to
correct</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>what they perceive as a
problem they develop a strong sense of responsibility to the group and
in an effort to fulfill this responsibility</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>they realize that they will have to work themselves
into positions of leadership. This is usually not too difficult to achieve as
leadership </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>positions are pretty readily available as nobody
from the membership at large wants to do a heck of a lot. Once firmly ensconced,
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>their lobbying power with the contest board becomes
magnified and more effective. Next thing you know, you discover that
there</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>has been a stupid change to a long established rule
that you had been performing according to the book for years without any
problems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>along with everybody else, but because one of these
now influential forward thinkers has proposed it the masses are soon caught up
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>in the current.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>So, you see, this is a self perpetuating dilemma
that will never go away. Come back to this forum in another 12 years and the
snap/spin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>controversy will be the topic of the day and
the rule book will be 300 pages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Maybe the best you can do is go with the flow, but
I won't expect you to like it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mjfrederick@cox.net href="mailto:mjfrederick@cox.net">Matthew
Frederick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Wincons@aol.com
href="mailto:Wincons@aol.com">Wincons@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 25, 2009 9:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] ENJOY
PATTERN. IT WAS "Rules proposal 11-6 question"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>OK, Vince, at your suggestion I re-read the
proposal. I can honestly say that I am even more convinced it's a bad idea.
The main reason being that for the proposal to work it requires
the sequences to be removed from the rule book giving the NSRCA free
reign over the schedules. This is a suggestion that I'm dead-set against. The
more I think about it and the more I hear, the less I want the NSRCA to have
sole control over the sequences. My latest argument against it that
I recently thought of is probably the strongest. That being: the
NSRCA does not represent all pattern pilots. Not everyone that competes is an
NSRCA member, and not every member of the NSRCA competes (So they don't have a
dog in the hunt anyway). Let's say a very non-scientific poll is taken by the
NSRCA (as they all are) showing that 55% of their members are in favor of a
proposal. OK, sounds like a majority, let's let it pass, right? Wrong. What
about the non-NSRCA members? What if they're ALL against it and let's say that
puts 60% against amongst actual pattern pilots? Not that it really matters to
the NSRCA, because they'll just say "Well, they should have joined." >From my
point of view the NSRCA should be there to serve pattern regardless of how
many members it has. Lately to me it seems more about serving the agenda of a
select few people. As well-intentioned as their actions may be, they may be
going against the majority. I don't trust any one organization having the sole
authority to do anything. There has to be a check to the NSRCA's actions
for non-members, and that is the contest board. Yeah, they may not enjoy
having to deal with all the rules changes associated with the maneuver
sequences, but there MUST be a way for non-NSRCA members to have their voices
heard, and the contest board is that recourse. Taking actions like some of the
ones proposed this year is like opening Pandora's Box. Once this is done, it
can never be put back if it doesn't work because the contest board would never
accept the responsibility again. I'd just like to say thanks to Keith Black
for helping me solidify my view on these matters this weekend, our
conversation really got me thinking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Matt</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">Vicente
"Vince" Bortone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:35
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] ENJOY
PATTERN. IT WAS "Rules proposal 11-6 question"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Matt,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">I have been
trying to follow all the e-mails in regard the proposal 11-6. Just too
much work in the last few weeks and I never had chance to respond
or didn't see any feedback after I responded to Lance. Also the
subject changed too many times. I am taking this opportunity to
explain you with more detail the reasons we introduced the proposal. I
suggest that you review one more time the proposal that can be found in
the following link:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><A
href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/RCA11-6.pdf">http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/RCA11-6.pdf</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">We tried to
explain in the proposal the reasons why suggested the change. I
understand that we could have done a better job justifying the
proposal. This motivated Lance to ask some questions and I tried to
explain when I responded to Lance. I would like to take this
opportunity to add the following:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">1. I have
been flying Masters for 5-6 years. It is evident that in the last few
years at the local contest we had 8-10 Masters Pilots with no FAI pilots in
some cases. In order to balance the contest, we have been dividing the
group in two and 1/2 of the Masters Pilots fly FAI to help to balance the
contest. We have been doing this for fun and to help the CD to
run the contest. However, I believe that it will be a lot easier and
fare if we fly approximately similar schedule. Please notice that
the proposal suggest that NSRCA committee is free to change the maneuvers
that are not proper for Masters level like integrated rolling maneuvers
and landing and takeoff should be judged. We missed to add that
the NSRCA committee could change turn around maneuvers that don't
flow well. Probably this could be added in the
revision.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">2.
Clearly next year I will have the pressure to fly both Masters and FAI-P11
in order to get ready for the season. This represents a lot more work
for me. If we adopt FAI-P11, I will guess that the maneuver #1 is
probably the only one that needs to be changed. I read some e-mails
that suggest that the turn around after #1 does not flow well. If we
change these two maneuvers it will be a lot easier for Masters Pilots to
switch around Masters and FAI-P in local contest. Probably some will
suggest that the loop with the integrated 8 point roll should not be in
Masters. However, I think this maneuver should be left as is. I
believe that this maneuver is a very good one to learn integrated
rolling maneuvers. I tried and it is fun.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">3. If we
adopt FAI-P schedule with modifications, it will be easier for Master pilots
to make the decision to switch to fly FAI because we will need to
learn the F schedule only. Yes, I know that some of us will
never consider flying the FAI F. If you ask me, I will really
like to try. Are the integrated rolling maneuvers difficult for
me? Yes. Again, I really will like to try. I believe that
this change will facilitate this process.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">4.
Finally, please don't forget that we have to judge. It will be a lot
easier and the level of judging will improve a lot if we fly approximately
the same schedule. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">5. It
will be interesting to guess how this change could benefit the high level
pilots in Masters to try FAI at the Nats. I am sure that some can help
me. I know that if I fly Masters at the Nats I will be better prepare
to judge FAI P schedule. The only pressure is to get ready to judge F
schedule so the work load at the Nats is somehow reduced for the Masters and
FAI competitors.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Best
regards,</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN><BR>Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Matthew
Frederick" <mjfrederick@cox.net><BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009
9:42:16 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE TO ENJOY PATTERN<BR><BR></P>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Umm, I don't think anyone threated to quit
after seeing the Advanced pattern. I said I would quit after Advanced if we
adopt the F3A P sequence for Masters. I haven't even looked at the new
Advanced pattern yet mainly because if I continue at this rate without
throwing a contest here and there I will point out of Advanced before I ever
get to fly the new one in competition... and I've only flown Advanced in 3
contests!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Matt</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=frankjuliei@comcast.net href="mailto:frankjuliei@comcast.net"
target=_blank>frank</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General
pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 22, 2009
10:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] YOU DON'T
HAVE TO COMPETE TO ENJOY PATTERN</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Having read the response of
one fellow who threatened to quit after seeing the new proposed
Advanced sequence ( all sequences look great, IMO), may I
respectfully suggest that you continue to practice and enjoy this
great hobby sport even if you feel that you can’t be competitive. I
compete very little by choice( was once a very active UKIE
competitor- for two decades) ,but still practice( in most weather
conditions) and enjoy pattern as much as anyone I know ( I fly with some
very active, die hard flyers who can attest). I’d probably be bored out of
my skull if I flew sport again and don’t wish to fly anything but pattern
aircraft. Try taking a year off and practice the hell out of the new
sequence- you might surprise yourself and will definitely become a
better pilot to boot. Please take no offense, just my
.02.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Frank</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
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