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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As per Senior Pattern Association? Not
necessarily a bad idea; just pointing out that others are doing it this way
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:00
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
proposal 11-6 question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You
are spot on John!!!!!!!!!!!<BR><BR>Thank you for your reply!<BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#0000bf size=3 face="comic sans ms">Chris
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> John Gayer <<A
href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tue, October 20, 2009 12:13:59
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<BR></FONT><BR>For the purposes
of this thread, it would be good if the proposed schedules were posted very
soon so we can see what the committee has in mind. <BR>Increasing the
difficulty of Intermediate, Advanced and Masters substantially might just get
us back to where we used to be. The old equivalent to
Intermediate(pre-turnaround) had three inside loops, three rolls and a reverse
outside loop. What is going on that no one can do three consecutive
rolls anymore <BR>And what possible reason can there be to keep a few simple
integrated rolls from some of the looping maneuvers in Masters.........<BR>Why
couldn't Advanced have an M with 1/4 rolls and perhaps a square horizontal
eight. Clearly needs more inverted flight and a sample of reversed rolls such
as 2/4 opposite.<BR>I feel that the sportsman pattern should have turnaround
maneuvers removed completely allowing our entry level pilots to focus on
presenting the center maneuvers both centered and parallel to the
runway<BR>John Gayer<BR><BR>krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I
agree with you Ron! I'm glad you posted your perspective from Intermediate!
Your perspective is very important to the growth, and health of pattern.
<BR><BR>Although, IMO coming up through the ranks somewhat now, if we make
Intermediate and Advanced a little more challenging, we will have more
advanced pilots in Masters, which will in turn lead to these pilots being
advanced enough to move to FAI easily. Which will in turn balance the
classes better. I could be wrong, and probably am as I haven't been doing
this that long. Just a thought, and just what I could see in my district.
<BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#0000bf size=3 face="comic sans ms">Chris
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Ron Hansen <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com"><rcpilot@wowway.com></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, October 19, 2009 8:52:01
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<BR></FONT><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I’m in intermediate
and I think both the advanced and intermediate sequences could be a little
harder (especially advanced). IMO advanced needs more inverted stuff
(half rolls reversed inverted to inverted) and maybe knife edge to knife
edge reversed half rolls to better prepare pilots for Masters.
Currently the only significant difference between advanced and masters is
the snaps and spins. There is a significant difference between
advanced and masters. This gap should be closed. I don’t think
making intermediate more difficult or even making masters more difficult
will change the number of masters pilots we have. I think a large
percentage of pilots want to make it to masters just to say they made it to
the top even if they really don’t have the skills to fly at that
level.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Brian<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 19, 2009 11:17
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I like this train of
thought.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal
align=center><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:
</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">krishlan fitzsimmons <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com"><homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com></A></SPAN></FONT><BR><B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:
</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Monday, October 19, 2009 9:58
PM</SPAN></FONT><BR><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:
</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">General pattern discussion <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A></SPAN></FONT><BR><B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:
</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
proposal 11-6 question</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Ed.<BR><BR>Very well
stated IMO.<BR><BR>I don't understand why people are trying to make masters
turn into FAI. I don't want to fly the current FAI sequence in masters, or I
would have just fly FAI.<BR>For the current FAI sequence, I would not want
to fly it in Masters as it is somewhat boring to me. There's a few cool
things, don't get me wrong. For example, in FAI, I don't feel a 1/2 outside
loop should ever be flown. What scores do I generally hand out for
this in my district? 9-10's. Why not exit the box and re-enter? (Just
kidding here, but for FAI, it's a somewhat worthless maneuver IMO).. It
should have something integrated, or a point roll in it. If you haven't
learned a 1/2 outside loop by FAI, you should probably go back to
intermediate, right? I understand the reason for placing it there, but come
on.<BR><BR>My thinking is this, for FAI, the new schedule coming up is
suitable. The Masters schedule should be equally difficult as it's a
destination class. We should be held back in Advanced because Masters is so
hard, instead of held back in Masters because FAI is too hard.<BR><BR>The
current P sequence isn't too difficult for many, the F is. IMO, they should
both be fairly challenging. That's why the big boy's fly it. But Masters
should be equally difficult. You will find a smaller Masters class because
of it.<BR><BR>Now to move on down the field, and not to really compare us to
IMAC, but look at their basic-sportsman- intermediate schedules. They are
much more difficult than what we are flying for our
sportsman-intermediate-advanced schedules. Why? Is it because our entry
classes aren't as good of pilots (I don't think so) ? Are we just trying to
gain new pilots by making our's a little easier? Or do their guys enjoy a
good challenge? I'm not sure of the answer to this as I don't fly
IMAC.<BR><BR>Could we gain from in Masters (and FAI) from making the entry
classes more difficult instead of changing masters into FAI?<BR><BR>My .02
cents</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><EM><B><I><FONT color=#0000bf
size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,191); FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Chris
</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal
align=center><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Ed
Alt <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com"><ed_alt@hotmail.com></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA List <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, October 19, 2009 6:33:30
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<BR></SPAN></FONT><BR>Re. the
notion of robotically accepting whatever FAI P sequence comes our way
as our Masters sequence, let's keep it simple. What problem, exactly,
are we trying to solve? And what exactly is it about giving up
all autonomy with respect to creating our AMA Masters sequences in this
country that leads us to believe that this represents a
solution?<BR> <BR>I think that you need to look no further than
the P-11 and F-11 to fully understand why this should not be
done. On the one hand, you have a prelim sequence that was done
either with complete lack of understanding of what the box boundaries are,
or perhaps worse yet, contemplates that it is best to fly at 220m in order
to stay within them while maintaining consistency with roll rates and
maneuver size throughout the sequence. And then you have snaposaurus
F-11. I quit IMAC in favor of Pattern after 2003 for some good
reasons, and these two 2001 FAI sequences harken back to that time for
me. Let's not start introducing the mindless application of snap rolls
and lack of thought for what the aerobatic box is there for, just to
make it easier to flit between Masters and FAI during the
season.<BR> <BR>Joe Lachowski and Dave Lockhart put a great deal of of
thought and energy into creating sequence design criteria, which is a good
tool to help design better sequences. I think that we should continue
to refine this approach and use it to our advantage to make the best
sequences that we are capable of, rather than just adopt something that we
have essentially no control of.<BR>Ed<BR> </P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal
align=center><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">From: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</A><BR>To: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:24:03</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>[The entire
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