<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">You are spot on John!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Thank you for your reply!<br><div> </div><div><strong><em><font color="#0000bf" face="comic sans ms" size="3">Chris </font></em></strong></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> John Gayer <jgghome@comcast.net><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, October 20, 2009 12:13:59 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<br></font><br>
For the purposes of this thread, it would be good if the proposed
schedules were posted very soon so we can see what the committee has in
mind. <br>
Increasing the difficulty of Intermediate, Advanced and Masters
substantially might just get us back to where we used to be. The old
equivalent to Intermediate(pre-turnaround) had three inside loops,
three rolls and a reverse outside loop. What is going on that no one
can do three consecutive rolls anymore <br>
And what possible reason can there be to keep a few simple integrated
rolls from some of the looping maneuvers in Masters.........<br>
Why couldn't Advanced have an M with 1/4 rolls and perhaps a square
horizontal eight. Clearly needs more inverted flight and a sample of
reversed rolls such as 2/4 opposite.<br>
I feel that the sportsman pattern should have turnaround maneuvers
removed completely allowing our entry level pilots to focus on
presenting the center maneuvers both centered and parallel to the runway<br>
John Gayer<br>
<br>
krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">I
agree with you Ron! I'm glad you posted your perspective from
Intermediate! Your perspective is very important to the growth, and
health of pattern. <br>
<br>
Although, IMO coming up through the ranks somewhat now, if we make
Intermediate and Advanced a little more challenging, we will have more
advanced pilots in Masters, which will in turn lead to these pilots
being advanced enough to move to FAI easily. Which will in turn balance
the classes better. I could be wrong, and probably am as I haven't been
doing this that long. Just a thought, and just what I could see in my
district. <br>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><em><font color="#0000bf" face="comic sans ms" size="3">Chris
</font></em></strong></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Ron
Hansen <a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com"><rcpilot@wowway.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern
discussion <a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, October 19,
2009 8:52:01 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<br>
</font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I’m in
intermediate and I think both
the advanced and intermediate sequences could be a little harder
(especially advanced).
IMO advanced needs more inverted stuff (half rolls reversed inverted to
inverted)
and maybe knife edge to knife edge reversed half rolls to better
prepare pilots
for Masters. Currently the only significant difference between
advanced
and masters is the snaps and spins. There is a significant difference
between advanced and masters. This gap should be closed. I don’t
think making intermediate more difficult or even making masters more
difficult
will change the number of masters pilots we have. I think a large
percentage of pilots want to make it to masters just to say they made
it to the
top even if they really don’t have the skills to fly at that level.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Brian<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, October
19, 2009
11:17 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern
discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Rules proposal 11-6 question</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">I
like this train of thought.</span></font></p>
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<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:
</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">krishlan fitzsimmons
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com"><homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com></a></span></font><br>
<b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">Sent:
</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Monday, October 19, 2009
9:58 PM</span></font><br>
<b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">To: </span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">General pattern
discussion
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a></span></font><br>
<b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">Subject:
</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rules
proposal 11-6 question</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Ed.<br>
<br>
Very well stated IMO.<br>
<br>
I don't understand why people are trying to make masters turn into FAI.
I don't
want to fly the current FAI sequence in masters, or I would have just
fly FAI.<br>
For the current FAI sequence, I would not want to fly it in Masters as
it is
somewhat boring to me. There's a few cool things, don't get me wrong.
For
example, in FAI, I don't feel a 1/2 outside loop should ever be flown.
What
scores do I generally hand out for this in my district? 9-10's. Why
not
exit the box and re-enter? (Just kidding here, but for FAI, it's a
somewhat
worthless maneuver IMO).. It should have something integrated, or a
point roll
in it. If you haven't learned a 1/2 outside loop by FAI, you should
probably go
back to intermediate, right? I understand the reason for placing it
there, but
come on.<br>
<br>
My thinking is this, for FAI, the new schedule coming up is suitable.
The
Masters schedule should be equally difficult as it's a destination
class. We
should be held back in Advanced because Masters is so hard, instead of
held
back in Masters because FAI is too hard.<br>
<br>
The current P sequence isn't too difficult for many, the F is. IMO,
they should
both be fairly challenging. That's why the big boy's fly it. But
Masters should
be equally difficult. You will find a smaller Masters class because of
it.<br>
<br>
Now to move on down the field, and not to really compare us to IMAC,
but look
at their basic-sportsman- intermediate schedules. They are much more
difficult
than what we are flying for our sportsman-intermediate-advanced
schedules. Why?
Is it because our entry classes aren't as good of pilots (I don't think
so) ?
Are we just trying to gain new pilots by making our's a little easier?
Or do
their guys enjoy a good challenge? I'm not sure of the answer to this
as I don't
fly IMAC.<br>
<br>
Could we gain from in Masters (and FAI) from making the entry classes
more
difficult instead of changing masters into FAI?<br>
<br>
My .02 cents</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><em><b><i><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 191); font-weight: bold;">Chris
</span></font></i></b></em></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Ed Alt
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com"><ed_alt@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> NSRCA List
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, October 19,
2009
6:33:30 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Rules proposal 11-6 question<br>
</span></font><br>
Re. the notion of robotically accepting whatever FAI P sequence comes
our
way as our Masters sequence, let's keep it simple. What problem,
exactly,
are we trying to solve? And what exactly is it about giving up all
autonomy with respect to creating our AMA Masters sequences in this
country
that leads us to believe that this represents a solution?<br>
<br>
I think that you need to look no further than the P-11 and F-11 to
fully
understand why this should not be done. On the one hand, you have a
prelim sequence that was done either with complete lack of
understanding of
what the box boundaries are, or perhaps worse yet, contemplates that it
is best
to fly at 220m in order to stay within them while maintaining
consistency with
roll rates and maneuver size throughout the sequence. And then you
have
snaposaurus F-11. I quit IMAC in favor of Pattern after 2003 for
some good reasons, and these two 2001 FAI sequences harken back to that
time
for me. Let's not start introducing the mindless application of snap
rolls and lack of thought for what the aerobatic box is there for,
just to
make it easier to flit between Masters and FAI during the season.<br>
<br>
Joe Lachowski and Dave Lockhart put a great deal of of thought and
energy into
creating sequence design criteria, which is a good tool to help design
better
sequences. I think that we should continue to refine this approach and
use it to our advantage to make the best sequences that we are capable
of,
rather than just adopt something that we have essentially no control of.<br>
Ed<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">From:
<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:24:03</span></font></p>
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