<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>That's easy - it keeps you from having to pull out too soon!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 10/20/09, Bob Kane <I><getterflash@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Bob Kane <getterflash@yahoo.com><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 3:10 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>I want to know how using rubber helped you roll better . . . . we are talking airplanes, right?<BR><BR><BR>Bob Kane<BR><A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=getterflash@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</A><BR><BR><BR>--- On Tue, 10/20/09, RON HANSEN <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rcpilot@wowway.com" ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>> From: RON HANSEN <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rcpilot@wowway.com" ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<BR>> To: <A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jpavlick@idseng.com" ymailto="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A>, "General pattern discussion" <<A
href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 2:37 PM<BR>> #yiv1016192165 p<BR>> {margin:0;}When I suggested<BR>> that intermediate and advanced be more difficult what I was<BR>> suggesting was that we need to build up more<BR>> gradually. For an example, I believe two horizontal<BR>> rolls done using rudder and elevator is more difficult than<BR>> one slow roll or one 4 pt roll. I learned to roll<BR>> using rubber and elevator by starting with a 4 pt<BR>> roll. I've heard others doing the same. I<BR>> agree that this can be taken to extremes. For example,<BR>> I've heard folks suggest that intermediate add 3<BR>> rolls. I believe this will cause pilots to drop the<BR>> rudder and only use elevator which I
believe is detrimental<BR>> later on (all rolls should include rudder and<BR>> elevator). Maybe move the 4 pt roll and the slow roll<BR>> down to intermediate and add some more complicated rolling<BR>> maneuvers such as 2 half rolls reversed inverted to inverted<BR>> or 2 half rolls reversed knife edged to knife<BR>> edge. These or similar changes would close the<BR>> gap between the various classes.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "John Pavlick" <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jpavlick@idseng.com" ymailto="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A>><BR>> To: "General pattern discussion"<BR>> <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:59:50 PM GMT
-05:00<BR>> US/Canada Eastern<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6<BR>> question<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Having the turnarounds AND box exits in Sportsman is a<BR>> good thing, I think. As long as the turnarounds are not<BR>> cross-box maneuvers (like a Humpty) then I don't think<BR>> it's asking too much of a Sportsman pilot to try to keep<BR>> things in the box until they get a break (box exit). This is<BR>> very good at preparing them for Intermediate (NO box exits)<BR>> as Pete said, yet it gives them some way to correct their<BR>> lines.What tends to happen to ALL of us is this: One little<BR>> error moves your line. Then another moves your line some<BR>> more. Until you've learned how to correct your lines<BR>> smoothly and / or simply not make those errors in the first<BR>> place (or at least make them to a lesser degree) the errors<BR>>
accumulate and without box exits, you only have cross-box<BR>> maneuvers to help you correct them. Sportsman doesn't<BR>> have any cross-box maneuvers so how would they correct their<BR>> line? With box exits of course. <BR>> <BR>> As a few people have said - and I say this all the<BR>> time: the sequence you fly contains the maneuvers which you<BR>> are judged on. This doesn't mean that you<BR>> can't fly different maneuvers and / or sequences when<BR>> you practice. Do you guys just go to the field and fly<BR>> your sequence over and over every time? If<BR>> so then I think you're missing out on something<BR>> very important. The difficulty between Masters and Sportsman<BR>> is (and should be) somewhat extreme. Yet there are only 4<BR>> classes that must deal with this range of skills. It's<BR>> nearly impossible to make each progression seamless.<BR>> You must learn at least some new
skills on your<BR>> own. You can't expect that by repeatedly flying<BR>> Advanced, you'll somehow magically be prepared to fly<BR>> Masters when you point out. Trust me, you won't.<BR>> VBG<BR>> <BR>> John Pavlick<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Pete Cosky<BR>> <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pcosky@comcast.net" ymailto="mailto:pcosky@comcast.net">pcosky@comcast.net</A>> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: Pete Cosky <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pcosky@comcast.net" ymailto="mailto:pcosky@comcast.net">pcosky@comcast.net</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6<BR>> question<BR>> To: "General pattern discussion"<BR>> <<A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>> Date:
Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 1:04 PM<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I partially agree with<BR>> your last post but those building blocks have to come<BR>> from somewhere. From my experience, I moved out of Sportsman<BR>> 4 years ago and then stopped flying to help raise my<BR>> son until this year when I got to fly again in Intermediate.<BR>> My flights were ugly but at least I had an idea of how it<BR>> all had to go together because I learned those building<BR>> blocks in Sportsman. IF what is proposed were to have<BR>> happened in my particular case it would have been quite the<BR>> obstacle to overcome and probably would have taken some of<BR>> the fun out flying pattern for me.<BR>> <BR>> If a pilot needs work on<BR>> geometry, and I know I sure do, then take the time to<BR>> practice the given maneuver outside the sequence. Go and<BR>> burn a few tanks flying the problem
maneuvers and<BR>> nothing else. <BR>> <BR>> My opinion is Sportsman is<BR>> fine the way it is and it lays a good foundation for the<BR>> progression in the classes.<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR><BR><BR> <BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>