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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Perfectly expressed, Mark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=atwoodm@paragon-inc.com href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">Atwood,
Mark</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:28
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
proposal 11-6 question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’ll
jump in on two points here. One, is that being able to move freely back
and forth between classes (something that is being proposed) would facilitate
trying the next class for even a contest or two without the permanent
commitment to being stuck there. The second point is Joe’s comment on
the “quality” of flying at the nats. Pattern (In my opinion, and why I
personally like it) is all about precision. Watching Tony F. fly an 8pt
roll, or ANY roll for that matter screams precision. When
Andrew/Chip/Jason/Dave L. (name your top flyer of choice) fly in a 25mph cross
wind, and it looks like they’re flying in the dead calm, it screams
control. That’s pattern.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">When
I moved to Advanced the maneuvers that separated the pack were the 4pt, the
slow roll, and the 6 sided outside loop. Those were the most difficult
maneuvers in the sequence so if you wanted to win, you had to grease
those. But because they weren’t THAT hard, they couldn’t be just
passable, that had to be next to flawless. As did the rest of your
flight. Take off and Landing scores made a difference, so you learned to
grease those too. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">When
I hear people talk about wanting to make the sequences harder, I watch people
fly Intermediate and Advanced and think, it’s already too hard. Not
because they can’t do the maneuvers, but because they’re spending so much time
ON the maneuvers that they’re not learning to clean up the “easy” stuff.
Intermediate and Advanced is where you learn to draw great lines, learn to
show rhythm and pace, learn not just maneuver geometry, but sequence
geometry. Learn to make things perfect in every wind
condition. We seemed to have shifted the focus a
little bit. There’s no longer a need to score 9’s and 10’s on K1 and K2
maneuvers because there are enough K5’s that 7’s and 8’s will do.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">That’s
also part of what has made the jump from Advanced to Masters “feel” so
large. I’m not seeing people truly master Advanced before trying to
move. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Being
able to change patterns more frequently may help in that we’ll be able to
eliminate the boredom component of flying one pattern too long. But I
completely agree with Joe that we need to follow the criteria established for
what each level is supposed to achieve. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
also think that each level should be a “jump” in skill. That’s what
keeps it challenging and fun (for me). <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">My
$0.02<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">-Mark<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mark
Atwood</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Paragon
Consulting, Inc.</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> </SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">|</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> President</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">5885 Landerbrook Drive
Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</SPAN><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Phone:
440.684.3101 x102 </SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">|</SPAN></B><SPAN
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440.684.3102</SPAN><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1351f3; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>
</SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">|</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1351f3; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">www.paragon-inc.com</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe
Lachowski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:22 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal
11-6 question<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One must keep in
mind that certain skill sets are to be learned at each level. If we deviate
from the guidelines, everything will become a blur. If we add what you
proposed to Advanced, you are flying a Masters sequence for all practical
purposes. Advanced and Masters both have spins and snaps. How is that a
difference? You will see the new Advanced sequence is a little
harder. In it we addressed the inverted exit and entry
concern.<BR> <BR>Food for thought. What stops any pilot from
practicing on there own things that are at the next level to help prepare them
for that next level in the future when they feel they are
ready. <BR> <BR>I had the opportunity to judge Advanced at the Nats
this year for the first time. I requested it for the purpose of seeing
where we stood on the Advanced sequences difficulty, since there are very few
Advanced pilots in my district that I could gauge it on. I was not
totally blown away by anyone who was flying Advanced which suggests that the
current sequence was not too far from where it really should
be.<BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR id=stopSpelling align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:
rcpilot@wowway.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Mon, 19
Oct 2009 23:52:01 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6
question<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I’m in
intermediate and I think both the advanced and intermediate sequences could be
a little harder (especially advanced). IMO advanced needs more inverted
stuff (half rolls reversed inverted to inverted) and maybe knife edge to knife
edge reversed half rolls to better prepare pilots for Masters. Currently
the only significant difference between advanced and masters is the snaps and
spins. There is a significant difference between advanced and
masters. This gap should be closed. I don’t think making
intermediate more difficult or even making masters more difficult will change
the number of masters pilots we have. I think a large percentage of
pilots want to make it to masters just to say they made it to the top even if
they really don’t have the skills to fly at that level.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Brian<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 19, 2009 11:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
proposal 11-6 question</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I like this train
of thought.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV></DIV>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">krishlan
fitzsimmons <homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Monday, October
19, 2009 9:58 PM</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>Ed.<BR><BR>Very well stated
IMO.<BR><BR>I don't understand why people are trying to make masters turn into
FAI. I don't want to fly the current FAI sequence in masters, or I would have
just fly FAI.<BR>For the current FAI sequence, I would not want to fly it in
Masters as it is somewhat boring to me. There's a few cool things, don't get
me wrong. For example, in FAI, I don't feel a 1/2 outside loop should ever be
flown. What scores do I generally hand out for this in my district?
9-10's. Why not exit the box and re-enter? (Just kidding here, but for FAI,
it's a somewhat worthless maneuver IMO).. It should have something integrated,
or a point roll in it. If you haven't learned a 1/2 outside loop by FAI, you
should probably go back to intermediate, right? I understand the reason for
placing it there, but come on.<BR><BR>My thinking is this, for FAI, the new
schedule coming up is suitable. The Masters schedule should be equally
difficult as it's a destination class. We should be held back in Advanced
because Masters is so hard, instead of held back in Masters because FAI is too
hard.<BR><BR>The current P sequence isn't too difficult for many, the F is.
IMO, they should both be fairly challenging. That's why the big boy's fly it.
But Masters should be equally difficult. You will find a smaller Masters class
because of it.<BR><BR>Now to move on down the field, and not to really compare
us to IMAC, but look at their basic-sportsman- intermediate schedules. They
are much more difficult than what we are flying for our
sportsman-intermediate-advanced schedules. Why? Is it because our entry
classes aren't as good of pilots (I don't think so) ? Are we just trying to
gain new pilots by making our's a little easier? Or do their guys enjoy a good
challenge? I'm not sure of the answer to this as I don't fly
IMAC.<BR><BR>Could we gain from in Masters (and FAI) from making the entry
classes more difficult instead of changing masters into FAI?<BR><BR>My .02
cents<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: #0000bf">Chris
</SPAN></B></EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Ed Alt
<ed_alt@hotmail.com><BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B>Sent:</B> Mon, October 19, 2009
6:33:30 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6
question<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>Re. the
notion of robotically accepting whatever FAI P sequence comes our way as
our Masters sequence, let's keep it simple. What problem, exactly, are
we trying to solve? And what exactly is it about giving up all
autonomy with respect to creating our AMA Masters sequences in this country
that leads us to believe that this represents a solution?<BR> <BR>I think
that you need to look no further than the P-11 and F-11 to fully
understand why this should not be done. On the one hand, you have a
prelim sequence that was done either with complete lack of understanding of
what the box boundaries are, or perhaps worse yet, contemplates that it is
best to fly at 220m in order to stay within them while maintaining consistency
with roll rates and maneuver size throughout the sequence. And then you
have snaposaurus F-11. I quit IMAC in favor of Pattern after 2003
for some good reasons, and these two 2001 FAI sequences harken back to that
time for me. Let's not start introducing the mindless application of
snap rolls and lack of thought for what the aerobatic box is there for,
just to make it easier to flit between Masters and FAI during the
season.<BR> <BR>Joe Lachowski and Dave Lockhart put a great deal of of
thought and energy into creating sequence design criteria, which is a good
tool to help design better sequences. I think that we should continue to
refine this approach and use it to our advantage to make the best sequences
that we are capable of, rather than just adopt something that we have
essentially no control of.<BR>Ed<BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>From: jlachow@hotmail.com<BR>To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:24:03<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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